Fuel Spec at LRRS

[OreoGaborio]

Thanks, Noel.

Considering how often the fuel gets tested at the track I would be FLOORED if that was the root cause. Possible? Sure. Friggin anything's possible. But I'd venture a bet that the chances are astronomically small.

[Pigman]

I blow my transmission that weekend, I wonder if I got bad gas too.

U blow......shit, wish you told me this

[timmyho414]

U blow......shit, wish you told me this

blew. I hate our language.

[GixerJockey]

blew. I hate our language.

Past tense? As in no one told me and I missed out on the blowing?

I blame Pigman.

Shawn, you owe me a blowjob.

[Pigman]

blew. I hate our language.

Hahahahaha i am the first to have the grammer police call me out always, so.... LOLOLOLOLOL

[Pigman]

Past tense? As in no one told me and I missed out on the blowing?

I blame Pigman.

Shawn, you owe me a blowjob.

Im on it calling Jimmy right now......as i type

[BMMCBR]

Past tense? As in no one told me and I missed out on the blowing?

I blame Pigman.

Shawn, you owe me a blowjob.

I believe you mean a blewjob.

[butcher bergs]

Here's what Graham had to say about the fuel issue:

[I]"This past race week end.
Two racers pitted near each other blew their engines ..
They got talking, both had just topped up with track pump gas, put two and two together and seemed to come to the conclusion - got bad fuel... it spread around - NHMS' track pump gas has bad fuel...water in the tank etc etc.

1 NHMS goes though pump gas very quick in the tank - even faster then gas stations. So they likely don't have water sitting in the bottom or the ethanol is absorbing the water etc. so getting into your bike is highly unlikely.

NHMS is topping 100,000 gallons of fuel each month?

Impressive!

[Kurlon]

NHMS is topping 100,000 gallons of fuel each month?

Impressive!

What makes you think the tanks are 100k gallons?

[Woodcraft]

Pete hit much of it. The real short version boils down to this: it lowers the cost of racing and keeps us from having to breathe the brutal fumes of the high end gas.

Yes, I understand that the pump gas at the track may be slightly more expensive than the pumps on 106, but over the course of the weekend that might cost you $1. We have to have spec fuels to make the rules enforceable. However, if Scotty buys MR12 (which is a huge advantage - even at Loudon), then I have to buy it. If I buy it, Shane has to buy it, then Christian, then Corey, etc... Now we are all stuck running $25-28/gallon gas that eats everything in sight if left in your engine.

For what it's worth, I swap back and forth from U4 to MS100, any my bike runs well in both cases....no re-mapping needed at all. However, with a stock engine, I'm with Pete - run pump gas as lower Octane makes more power. You only want higher Octane if your engine requires it due to high compression.

[butcher bergs]

What makes you think the tanks are 100k gallons?

They aren't and NHMS isn't selling anywhere near the volume of a gas station.

If I were a competitor with a blown Supersport engine, I'd be looking at the track fuel as well. It may not be saturated but I'd be willing to bet what's in those tanks is stale and a couple engines let go due to detonation.

[Pittenger5]

Past tense? As in no one told me and I missed out on the blowing?

I blame Pigman.

Shawn, you owe me a blowjob.

Just make sure you cop a feel off the right dude this time.

[csmutty]

They aren't and NHMS isn't selling anywhere near the volume of a gas station.

If I were a competitor with a blown Supersport engine, I'd be looking at the track fuel as well. It may not be saturated but I'd be willing to bet what's in those tanks is stale and a couple engines let go due to detonation.

But...you never were a competitor...and you don't have a built motor.

Now out of this thread with yaaa...

[Kurlon]

They aren't and NHMS isn't selling anywhere near the volume of a gas station.

If I were a competitor with a blown Supersport engine, I'd be looking at the track fuel as well. It may not be saturated but I'd be willing to bet what's in those tanks is stale and a couple engines let go due to detonation.

So, you're saying Grahame is lying to us about the gas tests from that day after the allegations of bad fuel came up?

[csmutty]

So, you're saying Grahame is lying to us about the gas tests from that day after the allegations of bad fuel came up?

No...Bergs is admitting he doesn't know wtf he's talking about. He's just a little shy so he likes to beat around the bush.

[butcher bergs]

Josh - I'm saying that there are other factors to measure for besides hydration and I don't think there is enough data to dictate whether or not the fuel in the paddock tanks is actually "good" at any given time. SS engines aren't grenades and to have 2 of them pop in a weekend raises questions. How many other riders had issues? Is there a volatility test that can be performed on the fuel to ensure it's burning properly?
How big are the tanks and what is the frequency of refill?

You are being forced into sole-source fuel. Do none of you want to ensure it is of the best possible quality since you know it sits in a tank for some unknown amount time?

[Kurlon]

Josh - I'm saying that there are other factors to measure for besides hydration and I don't think there is enough data to dictate whether or not the fuel in the paddock tanks is actually "good" at any given time. SS engines aren't grenades and to have 2 of them pop in a weekend raises questions. How many other riders had issues? Is there a volatility test that can be performed on the fuel to ensure it's burning properly?
How big are the tanks and what is the frequency of refill?

You are being forced into sole-source fuel. Do none of you want to ensure it is of the best possible quality since you know it sits in a tank for some unknown amount time?

600s can be turned into time bombs pretty easily while still being SS legal. That said, if there was an issue with detonation, I would have expected my SB motor to have popped first.

Edit: AFAIK Grahame's testing looks at more than just water content. That single source of fuel carries multiple products from two different brands, including options in factory sealed and dated steel 5 gallon cans if you'd like. The track runs all of their equipment off the 93, I can't imagine they like randomly replacing engines in trucks/etc due to crap gas any more than a racer would in their bike. I've got no more of a guarantee of good gas getting it from the Shell down the road, or my local pump near my house. The track has put in writing that they test the fuel frequently, have aggressive filter changing regimens, etc. They're taking on liability by being the sole fuel supplier, it's not all roses and mad profits they gain by making me use them for fuel while I'm there. If you loose a motor to bad gas, it's A) easy to document and B) easy to pursue the company as a result.

There are two people claiming bad gas killed their motors, let's see the evidence.

[sdog30]

They've mentioned a few times in rider meetings that the pump gas is ethanol free. They were starting it as an advantage. They made reference to people filling up with it and bringing it home to use because of the lack of ethanol.

Not sure gas is required to have ethanol to run on the street, btw. It doesn't help emissions, just helps the gas companies save money and fuels the growing corn farming industry.

[MaRce1o]

They've mentioned a few times in rider meetings that the pump gas is ethanol free. They were starting it as an advantage. They made reference to people filling up with it and bringing it home to use because of the lack of ethanol.

Not sure gas is required to have ethanol to run on the street, btw. It doesn't help emissions, just helps the gas companies save money and fuels the growing corn farming industry.

Hm agreed to all of it except the emissions part, i might be wrong but i do believe ethanol burns cleaner then gas

I love ethanol though, i used to race with it when i used to race go karts, you can run higher compression, with a cooler burn, i think its awesome lol

Would it be legal to run an ethanol fueled only bike?

[nhbubba]

Ethanol most definitely does cut emissions. It is an alternative to other additives, like MTBE. MTBE is now prohibited in most areas. It is really, really bad stuff when it makes it into the water supply. Ethanol is less so.

[butcher bergs]

600s can be turned into time bombs pretty easily while still being SS legal. That said, if there was an issue with detonation, I would have expected my SB motor to have popped first.

Edit: AFAIK Grahame's testing looks at more than just water content. That single source of fuel carries multiple products from two different brands, including options in factory sealed and dated steel 5 gallon cans if you'd like. The track runs all of their equipment off the 93, I can't imagine they like randomly replacing engines in trucks/etc due to crap gas any more than a racer would in their bike. I've got no more of a guarantee of good gas getting it from the Shell down the road, or my local pump near my house. The track has put in writing that they test the fuel frequently, have aggressive filter changing regimens, etc. They're taking on liability by being the sole fuel supplier, it's not all roses and mad profits they gain by making me use them for fuel while I'm there. If you loose a motor to bad gas, it's A) easy to document and B) easy to pursue the company as a result.

There are two people claiming bad gas killed their motors, let's see the evidence.

First off, let's stick with the facts...anything "can" be built to fail but were the two bikes in question modified to that level?

Statements that begin with "AFAIK" are nothing more than an opinions. Where are the real answers?

Your comment about the NHMS grounds vehicles using the same gas is good to know. Those vehicles are not being subjected to race conditions so the comparison is, at best, poor.

You keep coming back to everything but questions that should really asked...one of them being, has the fuel gone stale?


On the comment of NHMS selling more fuel than gas stations, I made a call to a friend who owns a few gas stations in NH. One of his 6 pump stations pumps about 130,000 gallons/ month. That station is open about 16 hrs a day, 7 days a week.

[Jim]

Sam - they said that pump gas is up to 4% ethanol. Less than the stations down the street, but still has some ethanol.

Bergs - I like you, but you're butchering this thread about a series that you no longer compete in. To put it bluntly, why do you give a shit or even comment in it?

[nhbubba]

To put it bluntly, why do you give a shit or even comment in it?

Yeah, totally. I mean STFU unless you agree with me, right?

I appreciate his posts. Many have commented several times that I should come racing with LRRS. This issue, and many others, are a turnoff. Berg's opinions are definitely worth hearing.

[butcher bergs]

Thank you, Colin.

Jim - I'm trying to find a reason to come back and race with LRRS and every year is met with let downs in the form of not having answers to questions or not having data for certain decisions that are being made. I realize there is an overwhelming contingent of folks here who are ready to accept every change with a smile and question nothing because all of it is in the name of "making things better". I am certainly not among that contingent of people. I want to know more than "this is how it is" and to say I am the only one killing this thread is ridiculous.

There is real data I have posted about a gas station in my previous post. I'd like to see data that backs up NHMS's claim of selling more fuel than any given gas station because that would indicate to me that the fuel is always fresh.

[Kurlon]

Yeah, totally. I mean STFU unless you agree with me, right?

I appreciate his posts. Many have commented several times that I should come racing with LRRS. This issue, and many others, are a turnoff. Berg's opinions are definitely worth hearing.

To be blunt, Bergs hasn't had any idea what it's like to race with LRRS for years. He hovers on the forums, bitches without any actual experience, and then rides off on his high horse into the sunset while waiting to troll another thread. Old routine is old.

If you've got any concerns, show up for a race weekend and hang out in the pits to see how things roll for yourself. Talk to Eric Wood, Grahame, Todd, Steve, all the principals are there and accessible. No need for playing on the forum, email or Facebook, get actual face time with people. They don't all hide behind dark cloaks, only coming out for secret gatherings around a bubbling cauldron to plot the demise of racing as we know it, they're right there hanging out with us. Attendance is climbing, grids are filling out, we've actually had to start splitting some races due to big grids... something's got to be going right.