Fuel Spec at LRRS

[csmutty]

talk about taking what bergs said too literal. its clear he used the wrong terminology but his point was still easy to determine.

private fuel pumps (restricted use) vs public use fuel pumps (joe smoe can use)

Oh look another guy who hates loudon!

[Kurlon]

talk about taking what bergs said too literal. its clear he used the wrong terminology but his point was still easy to determine.

private fuel pumps (restricted use) vs public use fuel pumps (joe smoe can use)

Well, let me provide some clarity, these are public use fuel pumps. Like the Smoke Shack, drive in during the day and fuel up your tank and your stomach. Depending on what's going on that particular day, you don't even need to stop at the gate and sign in.

I get what Bergs is trying to claim, that there is no culpability for the operation of those pumps therefore they're going to offer barely refined weasel piss instead of Sunoco 93 as the label would imply. There are two levels of big wallet to chase for crap fuel coming out of those pumps, the first being NHMS, but more importantly it's Sunoco's labels all over those pumps, the track, etc. At the end of the day, Sunoco is not going to stand for people claiming to have gotten crap gas out of their pumps, no matter who is operating them. Especially when it's racers at a NASCAR venue considering they supply fuel for the AMA (which, realistically, doesn't mean squat any more) and Nascar.

[daviid]

Oh look another guy who hates loudon!

i may hate loudon, but im not getting in on that argument.

[butcher bergs]

Yes Josh...killing it. Trying for a technicality after twisting words.

I'm amazed at the reluctancy of wanting a verified fuel source and more amazed that there are arguments against it


If LRRS wants to bring more racers in, the ever growing list of requirements to do so is going to make that goal incrementally unrealistic. I wonder how much is being lost in attendance right now due to this list.

[Jim]

If LRRS wants to bring more racers in, the ever growing list of requirements to do so is going to make that goal incrementally unrealistic. I wonder how much is being lost in attendance right now due to this list.

this is the highest attendance of grids they've had in several years. guess whatever they're doing, seems to be working.

[WinVT]

Yes Josh...killing it. Trying for a technicality after twisting words.

I'm amazed at the reluctancy of wanting a verified fuel source and more amazed that there are arguments against it


If LRRS wants to bring more racers in, the ever growing list of requirements to do so is going to make that goal incrementally unrealistic. I wonder how much is being lost in attendance right now due to this list.

What list? You are the only one that seems to have a problem with the way LRRS is run. If you ask me, you are the type of racer that LRRS is better off without. All you do is complain.

[Kurlon]

Yes Josh...killing it. Trying for a technicality after twisting words.

I'm amazed at the reluctancy of wanting a verified fuel source and more amazed that there are arguments against it

If LRRS wants to bring more racers in, the ever growing list of requirements to do so is going to make that goal incrementally unrealistic. I wonder how much is being lost in attendance right now due to this list.

Soo... by 'verified fuel source' you're advocating for the pump down the street, which is verified by who exactly? Graham is testing the fuel at every event so we've got someone doing more than sticking an oversized yard stick in the tank nightly to check the level. We've also got access to mfg dated and sealed 5 gallon cans if we don't like what's in the ground. The filters on the pumps are serialzed and visible so we can see how often those are changed. Please define 'verified fuel source' if none of the above fits your requirements, in which case neither will pump gas from any other vendor but I'm curious to hear your requirements.

As far as LRRS bringing in more racers, this year every event I attended had more rookies attending Penguin and running the Rookie Race the next day than I recall in 2008/2009. Spectator counts are also up according to Todd at the rules meeting, grids are growing, so yeah, I don't think there is much being lost based on the trends so far.

[MarkMarine]

What list? You are the only one that seems to have a problem with the way LRRS is run. If you ask me, you are the type of racer that LRRS is better off without. All you do is complain.

Which is exactly what I was saying. LRRS is doing it right and doesn't want Bergs. thank god.

bergs must go to every fuel pump he stops at and and make the dude behind the counter produce all the paperwork and testing results for the fuel he is about to purchase.

[gmdboston]

The point, which multiple people have (humorously) made is NHMS's primary product is the race track and filling it with racers on LRRS weekend. It's remarkably short sighted to think that NHMS would risk damage to their brand by mandating sub-standard fuel to make a few extra bucks. If they did blow up motors, how many people would risk damage to their machine to race there?

It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory, and frankly if any racers (the ones that actually show up and race) had a problem with it, they can bring their own gas from off track. It's not like the gas from the NHMS pumps is dyed red, and if the test is flawed enough not to catch bad gas then obviously they'll never catch street 93 vs track 93 right?

Two Supersport motors blowing in one weekend in the sample size of what, 200 bikes, every weekend, with no other reports? Now, if they tore the bikes down and both had holes in the pistons, and it happened to a lot more bikes, then you'd have something to ask about.

Word.

[butcher bergs]

So, based on the types of responses you guys are now coming up with, in short, the information isn't readily available and the testing, from what limited information is available, is for water content and possibly specific gravity but not octane or volatility.

That's all you needed to say.

[gmdboston]

Great discussion guys. Next week we will delve into synthetic vs. Mineral oils, abortion rights and Religious fanaticism in politics....

[MarkMarine]

So, based on the types of responses you guys are now coming up with, in short, the information isn't readily available and the testing, from what limited information is available, is for water content and possibly specific gravity but not octane or volatility.

That's all you needed to say.

Yup. And that's leaps and bounds better than the only data point you presented, which was gallons sold per month.

Fuel testing at LRRS isn't there to verify fuel quality from the pumps, it's their to enforce the rules on fuel use. i.e. No 50$ a gallon noxious super fuel. If you need a calibrated, verified data on octane and volatility before you run fuel in your motor, buy your own test equipment.

I'm 100% comfortable with the fuel supplied from NHMS.

[tsorfas]

Great discussion guys. Next week we will delve into synthetic vs. Mineral oils, abortion rights and Religious fanaticism in politics....

And the title of that thread will be "Ohlins VS Penske Suspension" and then it will take the appropriate direction as mentioned above.

[CBR929RE]

Two Supersport motors blowing in one weekend in the sample size of what, 200 bikes, every weekend, with no other reports? Now, if they tore the bikes down and both had holes in the pistons, and it happened to a lot more bikes, then you'd have something to ask about.

I wasn't gonna say anything but the one I know that's been referred to was a bone stock engine. it blowing had nothing to do with "bad" fuel. I've been running the fuel out of the pumps since july or august with a stock motor and never had a single issue with it.

Great discussion guys. Next week we will delve into synthetic vs. Mineral oils, abortion rights and Religious fanaticism in politics....

FUCK YOU. its Motul EVOO or nothing

[Johnny B]

The primary deviations from CCS so far:

- LRRS specific classes - Production Twins which is going away, now we get Formula 300 which looks to be a better matchup than CCS's Ultralight Thunderbike. We also get P89.

- LRRS prohibits SS/SB built stock displacement SVs and EX650s from ULSB, CCS does not. Given LRRS still has an active Hawk contingent, I'm ok with this one.

- LRRS fuel rule - As noted, both cornerworkers and riders like the lack of 'crazy fuel hangovers' during and after race weekends, the specifics on fuel sources is up for debate with the counter that enforcement gets more difficult as you expand options.

- Eject system - LRRS requires it, CCS does not. There are threads on here you can dig up for more on this debate, or as noted head to the track and talk to Steve Aspland and Todd directly about it.

That's the extent of how we differ from CCS's rule book.

Add to that the fact that, like WERA, we don't allow coolant additives that contain Propylene Glycol. CCS allows it, they even had Engine Ice as a series sponsor at one time.

Don't forget Novices, Amateurs and Experts.

Gridding by points.

There are other minor details, like not allowing carbon fiber wheels, etc.

[Johnny B]

LRRS is considered the North East region for CCS. If they followed the CCS rule book, there wouldn't be this discussion (see post #1). Only the LRRS series has a fuel spec for club racing.

LRRS, like Florida CCS, is an affiliate of CCS. We can (and do) deviate from how CCS does things as we see fit.

[Johnny B]

LRRS predates CCS FYI.

Wrong. AAMRR used to run at Loudon in the early 80's. CCS was started around 1984. Funny thing was that you could buy a CCS license and enter AAMRR races with it. Not everybody did, only the AAMRR licenses were required. So, if you finished fifth in an AAMRR race but the guys in front of you didn't have a CCS license, you were credited with a win by CCS.
I won't get into the safety horror stories that were rampant in the AAMRR days, but in June of 1986 the insurance company pulled the plug on AAMRR. Ted Goddard, who was the Ops Manager at Bryar, got Don Hutchinson and some of the others who still work at Loudon together to continue running the races. Roger Edmundson flew in overnight and covered us with a full CCS sanction. We finished the season and then became LRRS the following year. Basically we were a CCS affiliate, but still did things our way.

[tsorfas]

History lesson by yours truly ^

[Kurlon]

Cool, good to know the history.

I gotta quiz you one one rule thing though, you noted carbon fiber wheels as not being allowed in some series... CCS's 2013 rule book says carbon fiber wheels are OK as long as they are DOT / BS approved with JWL certs. LRRS makes no mention of them at all. I recall hearing in the past that they weren't allowed but I don't see it in the rules? I also know of one machine sporting them this year and I can't imagine telling that crew that they need to switch back to the original cast lead anchors the bike shipped with, I think half the paddoc would cry.

[Johnny B]

Cool, good to know the history.

I gotta quiz you one one rule thing though, you noted carbon fiber wheels as not being allowed in some series... CCS's 2013 rule book says carbon fiber wheels are OK as long as they are DOT / BS approved with JWL certs. LRRS makes no mention of them at all. I recall hearing in the past that they weren't allowed but I don't see it in the rules? I also know of one machine sporting them this year and I can't imagine telling that crew that they need to switch back to the original cast lead anchors the bike shipped with, I think half the paddock would cry.

I based that statement on looking in the rulebook some years back. I don't know quite the context but Eric Kelcher jumped all over some guy asking questions about LRRS on the WERA BBS. I smacked Eric around pretty good listing all the ways that LRRS was different than CCS. At the time, carbon fiber wheels were banned by us.

I would have to review that, perhaps it changed.

I pulled out all of my old rulebooks. Carbon fiber wheels were specifically banned up to the 2005 rulebook. In 2006 that particular line was gone.

I know WERA says that if they don't say you can use something in their rulebook you can't use it. We are the other way, if you don't see anything banning something's use you can use it.

[lrrs428]

I wish you could run what ever but thats just my opinion based on nothing but I want to run whatever I want. Not making a big deal of it just my 2 cents

[OreoGaborio]

I wish you could run what ever but thats just my opinion based on nothing but I want to run whatever I want. Not making a big deal of it just my 2 cents

To get a good drive outta turn 2 ya gotta crack the throttle open at the 4 board

[soofle616]

To get a good drive outta turn 2 ya gotta crack the throttle open at the 4 board

Then shut it entering 1 if you plan on braking at all for 12

[Johnny B]

Well, let me provide some clarity, these are public use fuel pumps. Like the Smoke Shack, drive in during the day and fuel up your tank and your stomach. Depending on what's going on that particular day, you don't even need to stop at the gate and sign in.

True. I see the occasional street car pull up to the pumps to fill up.



The sales figures for the 24 Hours of LeMons must have been pretty good because we were out of gas on Sunday.