What happened to "adjusting to the conditions"? (Anyone, everyone, come inside)

[butcher bergs]

You two are seriously fucked up.

I'm asking a question and trying to figure the "whys" of how people got to their decisions and here I am, under fire and over nothing at all. Don't think it's my business, don't post your comments.

I never once called anyone names, I never once judged, I never once disrespected anyone's thoughts and yet somehow you two are bent about the topic.

This thread was supposed to be the other end of the discussion as to why people are choosing not to race this weekend.....I'm inherently curious as to what makes people tick. Don't like it? Well, I'm sure you know what to do...


Honc - If you want to take my questions as me passing judgement on someone's ignorance then that's something you might want to talk to someone else about because I can't help you.

You stated the risk was more that you were willing to take and then got all "if you don't wanna pay my bills then back the fuck off".

Pretty much an unwarrented statement considering the fact that I, at no point in time, passed judgement or called names or anything remotely close to it.

If your race season has sucked, deal. Don't take it out on me.

I asked questions and you two got bent about it. What the hell am I supposed to do with that?

[butcher bergs]

Well, I'll take by the silence that you two are rethinking how poorly you've responded to an otherwise adult conversation.

Thank you both for fucking up this thread while trying to make me into an asshole in the process.

[Jaynnus]

Maybe it's just time for bed.

FWIW, even I took your discussion topic as a passive calling out of those who choose not to take on the additional risks.

[butcher bergs]

Maybe it's just time for bed.

They were both on at the time of post 26.

FWIW, even I took your discussion topic as a passive calling out of those who choose not to take on the additional risks.

Okay, that I can accept. Calling people out is one thing. Suggesting that I'm telling people what they should or should not do is something different and not what I was doing or had done at any point in time.....unless, of course, anyone cares to show me an example of what they mean....

[scottieducati]

No Pete, I'm calling you a Pussy. But it has nothing to do with whether you want to race or not

But seriously, when they made changes in the past, people were generally respectful through the 'new' areas. It's new for everyone... and guess what, if it's not safe, Jeff, Eric and the rest of the people who make the calls up there simply won't have it.

Whether it's a Jersey barrier w/ tires in front of it that we all know and love as T3, or some cubes of air-fence you have to turn around, there are risks at every turn, this weekend will be no different, just new, and fun.

Yeah, pretty much....

I mean shit, I'm still racing this weekend & even I feel like bergs thinks I'm a pussy for not wanting to race.

[OreoGaborio]

They were both on at the time of post 26.

Turned my monitor off & went to bed at 11:30

I'll read your posts again later, but as of now I haven't changed my mind about your posts in this thread.

[Hoss]

FWIW, even I took your discussion topic as a passive calling out of those who choose not to take on the additional risks.

Switzerland breaking with tradition and chiming in with +1


From a slow ass POS trackday rider, who obviously has only seen Tony's trackday solution and not Eric's racing configuration:


I think you effers are crazy for racing through some of the existing corners at NHMS.

But I can't even imagine bumping and grinding up through cones on the NASCRAP oval.

I'm curious to see the setup for you guys and hope it works out. Hopefully I can sneak up there and take in some racing.

[seth399]

I don't think it really matters either way, if I get to the line and I'm the only person in my class then ya that will suck but keep in mind when everyone takes off to race for the weekend it is their time, their money, their bike, blabla that they are expending energy on and if they are not totally pysched on it and can take the wife/kids/strippers out for the weekend instead and have fun then so be it. I'm goin up because I can't wait to get on my bike again but if I get toward that turn and it scares me then I guess I'll just let off and let everyone by or something I plan on racing as many of these/all of these weekends if I can.

[Honclfibr]

Well, I'll take by the silence that you two are rethinking how poorly you've responded to an otherwise adult conversation.

I think I've said all I can say here. There's no point in beating a dead horse.

[nt650hawk]

I learned how to back the 600rr into the 1st chicane. Nothing pretty though.

Whatever config is set up this weekend be prepared for extra entry speed into T3. Even with TTD set up just about stopping you in T2 I fond myself with 5-10 mph more. Indicated 120mph into T3 on the stock 600rr.

I'll be there supporting from a cornerworkers position if a situation arises. There will not a lot of room for error. We at TTD had about 1/2 of the oval lined with air fence for those problematic areas. Not once were they tested. What we had set up was very controlled and everyone was well aware what we were trying to accomplish and took it easy thru these sections. I am interested to see how this is going to be altered for this weekend.

Caution should be expressed. I don't think anyone is denying that. I for one and I'm sure you are in with me that we do not want to see anyone get hurt. This section is going to be challenging and nail biting.


Please be careful out there.

[TheIglu]

I must ask, you feel that going out on cold tires in a race environment is more safe than navigating a slight configuration change?

What happened to "adjusting to the conditions"?

How long have you been racing?

Pete, how long for you?

Darrell?

Jay?

[Pittenger5]

This section is going to be challenging and nail biting.


Please be careful out there.

[Kitt]

How long have you been racing?

Pete, how long for you?

Darrell?

Jay?

Bergs started his own alternate configuration thread to prove his toughness haha.

My views on it (whether people agree or disagree):

I started my original post to be persuaded one way or the other, but I've raced one other time when my head wasn't in it, and it wasn't right (to myself, or the racers I was sharing the track with - so I'm just going to go with intuition (plus a weekend off is never bad for the wallet). I couldn't care less who thinks what at this point.

I ride dirt, street, track, mx track... I usually do anything I can to get on 2 wheels... I understand we don't make much $ for the track (comparatively) but when I spend $1000 plus on a weekend, I don't want to be jerked around. I take the word of people who have seen these changes go well in the past, but I don't want to spend my $1000 dollars to go find out if the other guys on the track can learn the new lines and new entry speeds in 20 minutes worth of practice... Hopefully everybody can.

Now, to the many guys running 25's and above, or dirtbikes - I'd feel quite a bit different about the change of lines and speeds, but as for going side by side in a new section? I think some guys would be going balls to the wall, and some will be respectful - I see that as additional risk, and defeating the purpose of racing, respectively.

I hope for the best, and the weekend will probably go great.

[Doc]

Kitt, You need to race ULSB. You will spend HALF that $1000 a weekend.


Oh and on this topic. I have yet to race or do a trackday this season. This is my first weekend I had planned. I am also taking the Penguin Advanced School Friday (In the rain). I will be racing but then again I am only on a ULSB and not one of the fast guys. I plan to take it easy through the new section and be consistent. I will get a chance to talk to the Woods Friday and see what they have to say.

Watch for me in Race 2 on saturday.

[Kitt]

Kitt, You need to race ULSB. You will spend HALF that $1000 a weekend.


Oh and on this topic. I have yet to race or do a trackday this season. This is my first weekend I had planned. I am also taking the Penguin Advanced School Friday (In the rain). I will be racing but then again I am only on a ULSB and not one of the fast guys. I plan to take it easy through the new section and be consistent. I will get a chance to talk to the Woods Friday and see what they have to say.

Watch for me in Race 2 on saturday.

good to have you back Doc! (now when can we get the bodywork to you? I'm going to see Hobbs tuesday)

and yes, it's possible that when I stop improving on the 600, or I decide saving for the 2nd house is priority, I will most likely be racing lighter bikes. I had a BLAST on the supermoto track, and have been researching making a 450F supersingle road racing bike. dirtbikes at loudon don't scream fun to me, although I haven't gotten mine out yet. Supermoto though - big fun, reasonably priced.

[Awesome]

How long have you been racing?

Pete, how long for you?

Darrell?

Jay?

Think this is my 6th year maybe? I've run VIR, Beaverun, Jersey and Daytona as well.

Not sure why this is it's own thread. Same discussion as the first. The difference between this and cold tires is, you bring a generator, or you take it a little easy on lap one and control YOUR OWN bike. Tell me what happens if bike number 5 off the start crashes coming into a 10 foot wide chicane? Well, that bike and rider block the path for everyone behind them, then go flying into the traffic ahead of them, the people behind bike number 5 check up and blow the chicane into the traffic, riders and bikes in front of them.

You're all worked up because I call this bandaid work around unsafe and I'm not going to race it? What do you care what I do? Not racing it makes me a sissy? So tell me, are you tough or stupid for doing it when you have no idea what you're going into? You haven't even seen a video of what you're talking about.

Here's the response I sent to someone who asked me if I thought the track could be made safe enough.

I think that it can be made safER, but I don't think it could be made safe enough. Just riding the trackday had my nerves going a bit. The problem is the oval is 40' wide and they're making chicanes with cones, so you have to account for room to go left and right, room for the corner and some room for runoff. Leaves you with a chicane about 8-10' wide and one of the turns in each left-right is going to be off camber. Piling a race start of 3 people into a 10 foot wide max turn would be too many. Then you have the issue of someone missing the chicane, through the cones, tires, or air fence and they'll T bone whoever is ahead or crashing coming in and you're throwing a row of tires, a bike and a rider right into whoever's in the chicane. One person hitting some cones and sending them into the race line, or into other racers. There isn't enough air fence to cover the majority of the walls, coming out of nascar 2 you're driving hard and high speed while leaned over and headed straight for the bare wall. And to ice the cake, there's going to be plenty of people with 20 minutes total of practice on the new section heading out to race it. Oh, and the number boards are gone and there's no fence on the front straight, just the steel poles.

I'm all for new tracks and layouts, gives us newer guys a big advantage, but this isn't for racing it's just a mickey mouse fix. The smallest errors have the potential to end very badly, not just for the person making the mistake but for all of people around them.

I've been at the track for fatalities and serious injuries, it's a risk, and upping that risk is not something I'm ok with. Especially because this isn't a planned positive change, this is a way to keep the money flowing in any way they can.

I've seen two veteran racers who are excited to ride the new layout. Both penguin school instructors, one close friends with the people running the LRRS organization. I, myself, don't gain or lose anything by sharing my opinion.

[TTD]

Just wondering out loud...

Have we ever made a track change for a race weekend and said no passing from here to here?

For the TTD's and MotoMarket, we were given minimal time and manpower and resources (cones, airfence, tires). Given more of these, we could have made something much better.

However, I don't think we could have made anything safe enough for side by side action... and still left room for pit out.

If there was a way to use the whole oval... including the apron that we used for pit out... then you might have a better chance.

Maybe have pit out at the bottom of Turn 10? Or maybe you pit out onto the front straight by turn 12 so you blend by Turn 1?

[Pittenger5]

Just wondering out loud...

Have we ever made a track change for a race weekend and said no passing from here to here?

The way I see it, if youre going to say no passing, its no longer racing. Thats like not keeping score in little league. I would DEF skip the weekend if they said that.

HOWEVER, I dont see what the problem is, if you wanna race, go for it, if you wanna take the weekend off, what do I care? Ill still be there. HOWEVER, I'm also waiting to see what the changes are BEFORE making my decision. I'm waiting to hear/see the actual changes being made to make my decision. If they're what I deem to be "unsafe" I wont run (and they damn well better refund my pre-entry). If its fine, then Ill race.

[Doc]

I like the no passing on the Nascar oval rule. Just Have a continual Waving yellow thru that section.
I doubt that will be the case for racing.

[Doc]

On a positive note... We still have Friday and saturday night to talk about this in person around the camp fire! (I might even do another doughnut in the parking lot for entertainment!)

[Awesome]

The way I see it, if youre going to say no passing, its no longer racing. Thats like not keeping score in little league. I would DEF skip the weekend if they said that.

HOWEVER, I dont see what the problem is, if you wanna race, go for it, if you wanna take the weekend off, what do I care? Ill still be there. HOWEVER, I'm also waiting to see what the changes are BEFORE making my decision. I'm waiting to hear/see the actual changes being made to make my decision. If they're what I deem to be "unsafe" I wont run (and they damn well better refund my pre-entry). If its fine, then Ill race.

With Don having everyone's e-mail in order to keep them up on LRRS information, why haven't I seen anything pertaining? Waiting till the entries are in, the cards are run, and the racers come through the tunnel to say, 'oh by the way, this is what you get'?

[KB]

They were both on at the time of post 26.


Okay, that I can accept. Calling people out is one thing. Suggesting that I'm telling people what they should or should not do is something different and not what I was doing or had done at any point in time.....unless, of course, anyone cares to show me an example of what they mean....

I'll give Bergs a fat lip for all of you when I see him this weekend.

Frikin troublemaker!!!

KB

[KB]

On a positive note... We still have Friday and saturday night to talk about this in person around the camp fire! (I might even do another doughnut in the parking lot for entertainment!)

NO FIRES THIS YEAR.

KB

[seth399]

I like the no passing on the Nascar oval rule. Just Have a continual Waving yellow thru that section.
I doubt that will be the case for racing.

Not saying that is never an option but I agree with what richie said in that it really isn't racing anymore at that point. If you get to that point behind a slower guy and have to sit behind him for a few turns, meanwhile a guy infront of you both (who you were chasing) checks out with a clear track then that isn't really fun racing wise.

[Kitt]

With Don having everyone's e-mail in order to keep them up on LRRS information, why haven't I seen anything pertaining? Waiting till the entries are in, the cards are run, and the racers come through the tunnel to say, 'oh by the way, this is what you get'?

$$$