What happened to "adjusting to the conditions"? (Anyone, everyone, come inside)

[Kitt]

Not saying that is never an option but I agree with what richie said in that it really isn't racing anymore at that point. If you get to that point behind a slower guy and have to sit behind him for a few turns, meanwhile a guy infront of you both (who you were chasing) checks out with a clear track then that isn't really fun racing wise.

yup - and yellow flag or not - people being "respectful" through a section is still defeating the competition.

[DucDave]

I had fun at the MotoMarket track day Monday. But, no way in hell I can imagine how that would work on the start...

I expect that what the racers see will be way different from what MM and TD saw.

If I were still racing I'd reserve judgement until I see the layout. And if I wasn't comfortable spending the money and energy to get there and see it and try it with the possibility that I wouldn't want to race it, I'd take a pass. It would be an economic decision...

[Pittenger5]

on-board video of the setup,

Did you watch the video Bergs? Thats frightening, and if its like that, I probably wont race

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CaQ6YtE6jw&feature=channel_page

[Kitt]

And if I wasn't comfortable spending the money and energy to get there and see it and try it with the possibility that I wouldn't want to race it, I'd take a pass. It would be an economic decision...

[PPS26]

no idea what the huge deal is... i dont think jeff eric scotty brett todd rick d any of the fast guys would run on an unsafe track.. ppl who race go to new tracks and learn them all the time...i went to barber and took my first laps in the rain on slicks... if we all have the grapefruits to go into turn 3 wide open and stab the brakes hoping they stick or end up ontop of a concrete wall with some old hard as cement tires i think we can all learn to come through turn 1 in to a "s" like cicane and move on.... lets go up and rip itt..

[scottieducati]

If it wasn't made painfully clear earlier, they are / were spending the entire morning today working on getting the configuration sorted.

Updates are on: http://lrrsracing.com/ OH NOES, I DIDN'T GET AN EMAILZ!! But I'm too lazy to check the website that EVERYONE WHO ISN'T EVEN ON THE INTERWEBZ KNOWS.

That USCRA configuration looks the TITS, made them barriers out of airfence instead of cones and add a bit more of a turn and you have a winner in my book.

If you've raced Daytona at 200MPH with an OMFGROTFLMAO EXPOSED WALL about 6" from your shoulder, you should have no worries running the oval section at Loudon at much reduced speeds.

I actually wish I a) had a bike together and b) weren't going to Miller WSBK this weekend, as I would LOVE to run that configuration!!!!

With Don having everyone's e-mail in order to keep them up on LRRS information, why haven't I seen anything pertaining? Waiting till the entries are in, the cards are run, and the racers come through the tunnel to say, 'oh by the way, this is what you get'?

[Pittenger5]

If you've raced Daytona at 200MPH with an OMFGROTFLMAO EXPOSED WALL about 6" from your shoulder, you should have no worries running the oval section at Loudon at much reduced speeds.

I have not, can I still complain?

[Awesome]

If it wasn't made painfully clear earlier, they are / were spending the entire morning today working on getting the configuration sorted.

Updates are on: http://lrrsracing.com/ OH NOES, I DIDN'T GET AN EMAILZ!! But I'm too lazy to check the website that EVERYONE WHO ISN'T EVEN ON THE INTERWEBZ KNOWS.

That USCRA configuration looks the TITS, made them barriers out of airfence instead of cones and add a bit more of a turn and you have a winner in my book.

If you've raced Daytona at 200MPH with an OMFGROTFLMAO EXPOSED WALL about 6" from your shoulder, you should have no worries running the oval section at Loudon at much reduced speeds.

I actually wish I a) had a bike together and b) weren't going to Miller WSBK this weekend, as I would LOVE to run that configuration!!!!

In daytona you're not braking, driving and turning while aimed at the walls, you're riding along them, like we already do on both straights. Maybe you didn't notice but a crash on the oval sends you directly into the concrete. More airfence or tires instead of cones makes even less covering the walls. There already isn't enough for the standard configuration, with the new one the majority of the crash zones are bare. Flip a coin when you crash, if you're lucky you might not slam into a concrete wall. You came here to say you're not racing it for a number of reasons, none of which are any remote saftey concerns. Do you have a race license or are you posting from the peanut gallery?

[scottieducati]

No. You are not allowed to voice complaints. Your sole responsibility is pimp-talkin dem hoes.

I have not, can I still complain?

[scottieducati]

It is entirely possible to go into the walls, hard, at Daytona. Yes, you are driving and turning while aimed at walls (they're just a lot higher / further away).

If you don't need the air fence they already have for T1 and T2 due to it being repositioned and you taking a completely different line, then yes you have SPARE air fence to work with.

Yes, I have my license, yes I'll be racing at the Classic, yes I kinda hope the revised configuration is still there.

I guarantee you the ASRA guys would have NO problem with a re-configured track that has E. Wood's stamp of approval on it.

And yes, everyone whining about this without even seeing the proposed changes, are accomplishing nothing*

Pics and video will be posted when they are available. Save the moaning till then.

* = edited for political correctness.

In daytona you're not braking, driving and turning while aimed at the walls, you're riding along them, like we already do on both straights. Maybe you didn't notice but a crash on the oval sends you directly into the concrete. More airfence or tires instead of cones makes even less covering the walls. There already isn't enough for the standard configuration, with the new one the majority of the crash zones are bare. Flip a coin when you crash, if you're lucky you might not slam into a concrete wall. You came here to say you're not racing it for a number of reasons, none of which are any remote saftey concerns. Do you have a race license or are you posting from the peanut gallery?

[Awesome]

It is entirely possible to go into the walls, hard, at Daytona. Yes, you are driving and turning while aimed at walls (they're just a lot higher / further away).

If you don't need the air fence they already have for T1 and T2 due to it being repositioned and you taking a completely different line, then yes you have SPARE air fence to work with.

Yes, I have my license, yes I'll be racing at the Classic, yes I kinda hope the revised configuration is still there.

I guarantee you the ASRA guys would have NO problem with a re-configured track that has E. Wood's stamp of approval on it.

And yes, everyone whining about this without even seeing the proposed changes, is a complete and utter moron.

Pics and video will be posted when they are available. Save the moaning till then.

Maybe you and I are talking about a different Daytona. You would be hard pressed to hit a wall there crashing on driving and turning corners. There's a difference between driving out of a corner and accelerating around a 30+ degree banking. A crash on the loudon oval and you WILL hit the wall.

Extra air fence? Are we not coming out of turn two anymore? Are we not driving down the front straight at 120? I'm sure glad you're not involved in saftey at the track since you think it's not needed.

And to top it off you're speaking to what a whole racing organization will find acceptable? Along with call me and a number of other's morons. For one that's a direct personal insult, not allowed on this board. For two, you should reconsider your choice of words and personal bias when you're representing a business.

[Kitt]

can anyone tell me - people blow T1 many times a weekend they're off line, or somebody comes inside their line and takes it... they run wide.

what happens this weekend?

I've had a couple guys crash out of 1 next to me this year... and i'm totally chucking it out if scottie's moron comment is towards me haha. It's not worth the $ for me to come see what they have. If money was no object, or somebody else wants to pay for it I may have a different mind set.

[scottieducati]

For one, the line is blurry at best. But "ScottieDucati" has been a NESR member long before I became involved in a business, and should it make things better, I'll try and include a disclaimer as such that my opinions do not represent the opinions of Boston Moto. I would think that those reading this forum would be able to differentiate between the two, hence why I am posting under MY screen name, and not the company handle.

Note: I am expressing my personal opinions on this topic and they do not represent the opinions of Boston Moto. (hopefully that covers it).

Two: If you're coming out of turn two from a chicane, and placed where you are exiting down the back straight, then no, you wouldn't be aimed at a wall, or anywhere near a wall. You'd be pointing straight down the back straight and not have any need for the airfence placed on the outside wall with the standard configuration. If you notice in this video here, the airfence that is still sitting outside of turn two is not in an impact area anymore. It could be moved, safely.

Three: Yes, I believe that LRRS, E. Wood, Don, et. al. have our safety as their NUMBER ONE priority. In the past 9 years since I've been coming to the track, never once have I been given the impression otherwise. All prior track re-configurations have been made with a safety first mindset, I expect this time around to be no different.

Four: I apologize for the perhaps irresponsible choice of language or "name calling" but philosophically speaking, I cannot begin to comprehend criticizing something that simply, does not exist yet.

Finally: Some may argue that "vintage" bikes is not real racing, and I would be one to argue otherwise. YES, the speeds and capabilities are lower, but they are surely a far cry from trackday riding. This distinction must be made clearly, as we are NOT discussing a safe option for trackdays, I believe Tony's configuration was the best, safest option for trackday use, it simply removed any possibility of going anywhere near a wall, out of the equation. But the configuration for the USCRA races was met with RAVE reviews, and I have a sneaking suspicion those who give whatever layout is run this weekend a try, will be glad they did.

For RACING, we all accept a certain level of risk, especially racing at Loudon. I, for one, have raced at: Daytona, Summit Point, VIR, NHMS, and done a trackday at one of the best facilities in the world, Catalunya GP Circuit. All of the prior tracks I mentioned before Catalunya cannot hold a candle to a "real" race track when it comes to safety, and Loudon is about the most marginal you can get.

I am far more concerned about T3, T12, and the traditional T2 than I would be about entering a chicane at the end of the front straight. Yet these are all corners we simply accept, because they aren't some change, they're just the way it is.

Even more so, how many times has it been mentioned at the riders meeting that yes, we're racing, but we're also CLUB racing. You're out there with your friends, your buddies, and even those that get you riled up on the interwebz. It's YOUR responsibility to keep that in mind and everyone who has any racing experience at all WILL and SHOULD approach a new configuration (especially a temporary one) with caution. I highly doubt you'll be seeing people banging bars and battling it out for position as they're trying to get the apex just right around a big-blue block of air fence. The real dicing will be made in the corners we all know and love and are familiar with.

Regardless of absolutely everything said above, my initial point (misinterpreted by many it would seem), still stands: There is zero to be accomplished by arguing over something that doesn't exist.

Maybe you and I are talking about a different Daytona. You would be hard pressed to hit a wall there crashing on driving and turning corners. There's a difference between driving out of a corner and accelerating around a 30+ degree banking. A crash on the loudon oval and you WILL hit the wall.

Extra air fence? Are we not coming out of turn two anymore? Are we not driving down the front straight at 120? I'm sure glad you're not involved in saftey at the track since you think it's not needed.

And to top it off you're speaking to what a whole racing organization will find acceptable? Along with call me and a number of other's morons. For one that's a direct personal insult, not allowed on this board. For two, you should reconsider your choice of words and personal bias when you're representing a business.

[scottieducati]

Kitt, think for a moment. HYPOTHETICALLY HERE PEOPLE.

If you're coming into T1 and there's a chicane at the bottom of the track like the USCRA ran, and like the TTD configuration ran... let's just say you're battling for position....

The INSIDE line will be on the "OUTSIDE" of the normal T1 line, because you'll be making a RIGHT corner, not a left.

Thus if you blow it, lose the front, whatever.... you're going off towards the grass, not at the wall.

And no, you're not a moron, you just ride a baby blue bike (need I say more?)

can anyone tell me - people blow T1 many times a weekend they're off line, or somebody comes inside their line and takes it... they run wide.

what happens this weekend?

I've had a couple guys crash out of 1 next to me this year... and i'm totally chucking it out if scottie's moron comment is towards me haha. It's not worth the $ for me to come see what they have. If money was no object, or somebody else wants to pay for it I may have a different mind set.

[Kitt]

Kitt, think for a moment. HYPOTHETICALLY HERE PEOPLE.

If you're coming into T1 and there's a chicane at the bottom of the track like the USCRA ran, and like the TTD configuration ran... let's just say you're battling for position....

The INSIDE line will be on the "OUTSIDE" of the normal T1 line, because you'll be making a RIGHT corner, not a left.

Thus if you blow it, lose the front, whatever.... you're going off towards the grass, not at the wall.

And no, you're not a moron, you just ride a baby blue bike (need I say more?)

hey - a 'small part' of you thinks about me when you slip into your baby blue thong.

and yea - I think they'll make it as safe as possible... but I'm using the ambiguity of the configuration as an excuse to save a little $

note to self: paying for race tires in advance depletes bank account in time to make rational decisions... (much easier to be irrational at the track )

[Awesome]

I never said you were speaking for boston moto, I said you're representing them. I find it not too bright to say, 'you having concerns about your safety and making a personal decision not to race makes you a moron', and not expect that 'moron' to turn a cheek and not have second thoughts doing business with your company.

Two: If you're coming out of turn two from a chicane, and placed where you are exiting down the back straight, then no, you wouldn't be aimed at a wall, or anywhere near a wall. You'd be pointing straight down the back straight and not have any need for the airfence placed on the outside wall with the standard configuration. If you notice in this video here, the airfence that is still sitting outside of turn two is not in an impact area anymore. It could be moved, safely.
[/qoute]

I was coming out of a chicane at nascar turn two. I was driving and leaned over pointed at a bare concrete wall. And I don't care who's approval you blindly support. Just because it's safe enough for some people who run ahead of the field and haven't crashed in 10 years, or watch from the sidelines doesn't make it safe enough for me.

Four: I apologize for the perhaps irresponsible choice of language or "name calling" but philosophically speaking, I cannot begin to comprehend criticizing something that simply, does not exist yet.

Adding 'but' right there completely negates what you're saying before it. So you can't comprehend how some of us who have been there, riding, and racing for years can have saftey concerns? Can you comprehend blindly supporting what 'does not exist', and ignoring any safety issues?

Regardless of absolutely everything said above, my initial point (misinterpreted by many it would seem), still stands: There is zero to be accomplished by arguing over something that doesn't exist.

Most of us here weren't arguing, we were talking about our concerns, none of which have been mentioned or addressed with words other than sissy, moron and pussy. You're here pointing fingers and name calling. Telling us we're not as tough as some racer from 50 years ago who was winning AMA championships?

[Awesome]

Kitt, think for a moment. HYPOTHETICALLY HERE PEOPLE.

If you're coming into T1 and there's a chicane at the bottom of the track like the USCRA ran, and like the TTD configuration ran... let's just say you're battling for position....

The INSIDE line will be on the "OUTSIDE" of the normal T1 line, because you'll be making a RIGHT corner, not a left.

Thus if you blow it, lose the front, whatever.... you're going off towards the grass, not at the wall.

And no, you're not a moron, you just ride a baby blue bike (need I say more?)

Let me inform you since you haven't seen the track and you're entirely speculating. 10 feet of that area is taken up by pit out and blowing the entry of the chcane sends you into a T bone with the traffic exiting the chicane. Thus if you blow it someone is catching a motorcycle in the ribs and then being thrown into the wall, then laying there in a pavement crash zone 10-15 feet from the racing line.

[Kitt]

Telling us we're not as tough as some racer from 50 years ago who was winning AMA championships?

I heard back then.. people could hit cement walls and walk away, something about they were closer to dinosaurs in the evolution timeline...

hessoold?

[scottieducati]

I guess I always got the "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" drilled a bit too far into me growing up as a kid.

I never once said you aren't smart for having concerns about safety. I said that it is moronic (e.g.: not very smart) to critique something that doesn't exist yet.

Wow, tomorrow is going to suck, I just know it. That thing, that hasn't happened yet, man that is awful!!!

Actually, I think I was pretty clear about pointing out that safety should, and WILL be the #1 concern in the minds of those that are responsible for setting up the alterations.

ONCE they are set up, if you... or anyone else... would like to debate whether they are safe or not, that's totally fine (and I actually encourage it).

Can I get a permanent tounge-in-cheek avatar? Seriously.

I never said you were speaking for boston moto, I said you're representing them. I find it not too bright to say, 'you having concerns about your safety and making a personal decision not to race makes you a moron', and not expect that 'moron' to turn a cheek and not have second thoughts doing business with your company.

Most of us here weren't arguing, we were talking about our concerns, none of which have been mentioned or addressed with words other than sissy, moron and pussy. You're here pointing fingers and name calling. Telling us we're not as tough as some racer from 50 years ago who was winning AMA championships?

[scottieducati]

You missed the "IF" in my statement. My chicane is ideally placed, and does not involve pit out, because it's MY chicane, that's in my head. It is perfect, no matter what you say.

And the chicane I was talking about was at Turn 1, not Turn 2. No Pit Out in Turn 1.

Neener.

Let me inform you since you haven't seen the track and you're entirely speculating. 10 feet of that area is taken up by pit out and blowing the entry of the chcane sends you into a T bone with the traffic exiting the chicane. Thus if you blow it someone is catching a motorcycle in the ribs and then being thrown into the wall, then laying there in a pavement crash zone 10-15 feet from the racing line.

[Awesome]

I guess I always got the "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" drilled a bit too far into me growing up as a kid.

I never once said you aren't smart for having concerns about safety. I said that it is moronic (e.g.: not very smart) to critique something that doesn't exist yet.

Wow, tomorrow is going to suck, I just know it. That thing, that hasn't happened yet, man that is awful!!!

Actually, I think I was pretty clear about pointing out that safety should, and WILL be the #1 concern in the minds of those that are responsible for setting up the alterations.

ONCE they are set up, if you... or anyone else... would like to debate whether they are safe or not, that's totally fine (and I actually encourage it).

Can I get a permanent tounge-in-cheek avatar? Seriously.

How about I make MY decision now, and you sit there and don't criticize it? How about I don't spend my money and time going into a blind setup to see if a track can be mickey moused together in a couple hours. How about talking about our safety concerns in advance before we get to the grid and barrel down the front straight. If you call being concerned with my well being moronic, what do you call disregarding it?

[scottieducati]

You're free to make whatever decision you want to buddeh. If you're concerned going into an unknown, then so be it. But calling the unknown unsafe simply because it's unknown... is a bit short-sighted.

Perhaps I have more faith in those responsible for setting up the new section, because I've gone through it a few times in the past, and it's always been safe, and always been well done.

Was I glad to have the "old" Loudon back? Absolutely, but it usually is a pretty fun change from the norm, and sure as heck beats not racing... at least in my book.

Then again, it's not a huge cost for me to go to the track, if I went, and didn't like it, I wouldn't ride... but I'd hang out, and have a blast with the awesome people that make up LRRS. If it's a bigger effort for some to haul more, spend more, and do all that, I wouldn't bat an eyelash about saving the money for next weekend... because there's *always* next weekend.

How about I make MY decision now, and you sit there and don't criticize it? How about I don't spend my money and time going into a blind setup to see if a track can be mickey moused together in a couple hours. How about talking about our safety concerns in advance before we get to the grid and barrel down the front straight. If you call being concerned with my well being moronic, what do you call disregarding it?

[scottieducati]

BTW, you want to hug it out?

[a13x]

dirtbikes at loudon don't scream fun to me, although I haven't gotten mine out yet. priced.

Ha!! Wait till you get out there Way more fun (IMO) than riding a 600 in 4th gear at Loudon (IMO). I love riding 600's - 1098R Superbikes around ripping tracks, but not Loudon. Gotta get out there on your 450F bro!

I've seen two veteran racers who are excited to ride the new layout. Both penguin school instructors, one close friends with the people running the LRRS organization. I, myself, don't gain or lose anything by sharing my opinion.

FWIW Let's just clear something up. Nor do I gain or lose anything by sharing my opinion. Part of being friends with someone is being able to tell them straight up how you feel. I can and do tell Jeff / Eric / whoever XYZ IDEA is stupid if I think it is and I have in the past, on a number of LRRS and Penguin related topics.

[Awesome]

Ha!! Wait till you get out there Way more fun (IMO) than riding a 600 in 4th gear at Loudon (IMO). I love riding 600's - 1098R Superbikes around ripping tracks, but not Loudon. Gotta get out there on your 450F bro!



FWIW Let's just clear something up. Nor do I gain or lose anything by sharing my opinion. Part of being friends with someone is being able to tell them straight up how you feel. I can and do tell Jeff / Eric / whoever XYZ IDEA is stupid if I think it is and I have in the past, on a number of LRRS and Penguin related topics.

have you ever publicly?