LightWeight Class VS 650 Twin Class

[Kurlon]

Look at what happens on track, those 'massive 1100cc monstahs' are not blowing away everything else. What's winning LWSS, LWSB, and even LWGP? SVs and ERs. The 565s didn't strike me as dominating either this weekend.

[theducman]

What's the cost to make one of these 545 bikes?

[tsorfas]

Look at what happens on track, those 'massive 1100cc monstahs' are not blowing away everything else. What's winning LWSS, LWSB, and even LWGP? SVs and ERs. The 565s didn't strike me as dominating either this weekend.

Doucette got beat by one of those 1100 this weekend. and it will only get worst in the future in my opinion.

[Kurlon]

Destroke the crank - couple thou plus
Custom rods - Thou plus
Powercommander / Bazzaz / Kit ECU / etc - Pick your poison

Now, if you want to actually make it fast, plan on custom pistons, pretty heavy head epoxy/porting, custom cams and timing, aka a full on superbike build but there are not as many details nailed down due to the lack of iterations for development.

[Kurlon]

Doucette got beat by one of those 1100 this weekend. and it will only get worst in the future in my opinion.

Why would it suddenly get worse now? This has been the CCS/LRRS structure for YEARS.

[Kurlon]

And just for fun: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YE8/edit#gid=0

[tsorfas]

Why would it suddenly get worse now? This has been the CCS/LRRS structure for YEARS.

because now there are more n more of these and its not a same class race IMO.

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And just for fun: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...YE8/edit#gid=0

LW Twins class... see how simple it is?

[number9]

You don't need to go custom to destroke an 848, Duc cranks swap across a scary range of years. Find a 400ss if you want to make a SCREAMER short stroke quacker.

My 3rd bike was a 748SP with one of the first 996 cranks in Australia. Made 955cc for the win!

And it would be absolutely blown away by a 600RR. Sigh

[Kurlon]

LW Twins class... see how simple it is?

So... what class do we nuke to make room, and why should the twins get the honors? I want a triples only class. Triumphs vs MVs vs NS400Rs and Kawi H1s, it'll be glorious!

[tsorfas]

So... what class do we nuke to make room, and why should the twins get the honors? I want a triples only class. Triumphs vs MVs vs NS400Rs and Kawi H1s, it'll be glorious!

i dont think we need to nuke any class. We didnt nuke anything for two formula 300 races.
Although the future of P89 is not looking very promising (i dislike that personally).

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i also dont think its honors.. its pretty common in severeal other places.

[csmutty]

Doucette got beat by one of those 1100 this weekend. and it will only get worst in the future in my opinion.

What about the other big bore ducati on rsp? Did that one beat doucette too?

[Kurlon]

My 3rd bike was a 748SP with one of the first 996 cranks in Australia. Made 955cc for the win!

And it would be absolutely blown away by a 600RR. Sigh

I've always wanted to build a destroked 1100DS motor sporting ST3 heads for ULSB...

[tsorfas]

What about the other big bore ducati on rsp? Did that one beat doucette too?

i dont discriminate on bikes based on who their owner is. as you see I prefer a a mini twins class instead of banding the Ducs. If an SV wants to race against them it would be like racing half a class up in LW. but the mini twins class would allow equal racing.

[csmutty]

All I was proving is jesse sandoz is a damn good rider. It's not all bike.

[number9]

Racing organizations have been struggling with parity for, well, pretty much forever. The hard part is, how do you quantify it? Power/weight ratios are the common choice but even that leaves a lot to be desired. A 125cc GP bike has a great power to weight ratio unless you're on a circuit with a long straight. Or uphill sections. Or...

If you try just going with native cylinder limits then you have the problem that water-cooled bikes make more specific power than air-cooled/oil-cooled ones.

This is why I'm glad that I studied Economics. You get to point out problems and then say "Gee, that looks tricky" and then go do something else.

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I've always wanted to build a destroked 1100DS motor sporting ST3 heads for ULSB...

Where's my wallet ARGH FUCK YOUUUUUU



I'm sporting a full chub right now.

[tsorfas]

All I was proving is jesse sandoz is a damn good rider. It's not all bike.

well Doucette is a great rider too. and if you put him in one of those he will probably be unbeatable. and lets not forget that CCS is not located ONLY in LRRS where the talent can make up for the power..

Put Doucette against the Bimotas and Ducs in Daytona to see what happens. Hell maybe even Jersey. but thats too much bench and theory racing.
the reality is simple. It is an 1100 bike in the same class as a 650. Shit I race SuperTwins and Thunderbike but i am fully aware I race a class up.

Dont forget LRRS banned SVs from ULSB because it was unfair to other bikes. CCS did not. This is not much different.

[csmutty]

Honestly. Get the bike that is most competitive in a class. Run that class. Don't look back.

Don't complain if you didn't buy the best bike for your class.

[number9]

i dont think we need to nuke any class. We didnt nuke anything for two formula 300 races.
Although the future of P89 is not looking very promising (i dislike that personally).

What we do think the best bikes are for P89?

[jasnmar]

Hawks.

[Kurlon]

The rule structure for P89 is biased towards old Ducs and Hawks. You'll note the don't allow FZRs or other legal four cylinders the same displacement they do in P89 that they do in ULSB where they're facing the same twins. It's also setup to be compatible with the USCRA's Period 4 class so take a look at what they're running.

[tsorfas]

Honestly. Get the bike that is most competitive in a class. Run that class. Don't look back.

Don't complain if you didn't buy the best bike for your class.

in case you didnt notice thats exactly what I did. my goal is the Isle of man TT Light class where they limit it at 650cc. and i bought the bike that seems the most competitive. this is just a discussion.

[csmutty]

I'd race a Harley 1500 up against an ex500 anytime

I just think there's more to it than displacement.

[Kurlon]

I miss that crazy XR1200R...

[The Snowman]

Now that I think of it, the SV was kinda the lightweight class destroyer. It homogenized the entire lightweight grid. Killing off 125s 250s EX500s MuZs TIGcrafts, Hawks, FZR400s SRXs and a lot of other interesting bikes.

I don't know, a few years back, Chris Rau walked all over everyone with an FZR400, bored out to the max of 560. No one could keep up with him, not even my 83hp SV Superbike. His FZR had to be making at least 85 or more. He would just pull me by at least 1-2 lengths on the front straight every time.

[Kurlon]

Problem with the old spacer plate 560 motors is they are grenades. First time you start it up you pull the pin, from there it's a guessing game as to how short the fuse is. That's why you just don't see them any more. There is a newer way to get to 560 that should be more reliable, I'd like to try one to compare to the route I went, but I only know of a couple out there.