NHMS Marketing

[OreoGaborio]

Awww

[mzdagrl]

Awww

Hey, gotta give credit where it's due.

[obsolete]

disclaimer: this really isn't any sort of go at you tsorfas, just kind of kicking the ball around and your original comment sparked my curiosity. All in the spirit of disucssion. Cheers

You said "Motor cross and arena cross specifically is the only two wheeled sport Americans enjoy." Okay got it. But it was followed with "And even that is so low in attendance and revenue..."

It was the second part I was asking for clarification on. "low in attendance and revenue". Compared to what? Was a pretty vague statement as is. My point was the attendance numbers for supercross are not low in any metric you want to quantify it with. Anaheim 1 is sold out. There is such a huge turnout for the Atlanta race they added a second one this year, etc etc. Overall SX's average about 45,000 per event over 17 rounds. Those are good numbers by anyone's reckoning. The second part was 'revenue is down' which again I was curious about. There are a great number of quality teams and solid rides, nothing to sneeze at, with top guys making 7 figures.


Switching topics, general musing:
I also don't hold to the opinion that Americans don't like roadracing, meaning American motorcyclist. No, Americans don't like shitty products. American roadracing has been a fucking horrible product for 6 years. Yea the racing has been good but the actual PRODUCT and experience has sucked. I was EMBARRASSED to bring company executives to Daytona, the "BIGGEST RACE OF THE YEAR" (har har har) the last few years. Got to the point it wasn't even fun to be at AMA races. Last exciting AMA race I went to was New Jersey 2009, first year of that track, where there was a pretty good crowd.

However, Indianapolis GP this year was off the hook. There was 62,000 on race day with total attendance around 110,000 over 3 days. Know what the attendance was on race day for Silverstone England this year? England... the bike crazy country. 67,000 on raceday. I've been to Silverstone 2011, Valencia (2011,2012), Catalunya 2013, Laguna Seca (2005-2013), Indianapolis 2011-2014, and Austin 2013 for Grand Prixs. Catalunya was #1 for awesome crowd and Indy 2014 was #2. IndyGP is #1 when it comes to overall vibe with a killer downtown, huge turnout of bikes, and all that jazz.

So yea, Americans like roadracing, IMO, and I think it *can* be rebuilt into a viable product again domestically. Is roadracing ever going to be baseball, football, basketball, hockey? HELL NO. Waste of time even thinking about that. Shit soccer can't even get any play on mainstream TV (other than WC) and the numbers for soccer are huuuuge. There are 9 million registered motorcyclist in the US (out of 300 million) and 400,000 bikes sold per year (btw that number was about 1.2 million before the 2008 crash). We aren't ever going to be mainstream, that's okay, I just want to get us back to where we were in the late 90's!

Topic at hand
Marketing at NHMS. Fact is NHMS isn't going to put much effort into marketing club racing, any club racing. They are overworked and understaffed and they have 2 big races a year that they have to 'kill it' to justify their existence. NASCAR is actually been in a decline over the last few years so all hands on deck to sell those tickets. Club racing cars, bikes, horses, etc is something to keep the utility bills paid between NASCAR races. If you guys want to build fans and exposure with the club it's only going to happen two ways 1) the LRRS club does it or 2) the LRRS racers do it. Grassroots man. Think punk rock band. Target other riders. Forget about 'Joe Public and Soccer Mom USA'. Work on getting all the bike owners you personally know and see out to the races. Walk and talk at every bike night you go to, spread the word. You'd be amazed at how few riders know anything about racing. I remember being at a big bike night in New Jersey in 2009. Tons of guys. I was there with the Jordan team and the riders were inside signing autographs (they signed about 5). Outside was tons of dudes sitting on their bikes telling stories. I walked up to about a dozen guys "hey man cool bike you coming to the race tomorrow" "what race? what?" "uh the race 25 miles away at the new track, AMA Superbike, Michael Jordan team" TOTAL BLANK FACES. Mind you the track had been pumping this race pretty hard cause it was Year 1 and there were TV ads, billboards, all that shit. Dozen guys I talked to, no idea.

I really have yet to meet a person who's come to a race and NOT liked it, it's just getting them there.

When I was involved with a race series in NM we did just that and it worked. I'd have to look up the particulars but we had a burnout contest, bands, bikini contest some shit for kids. We were out every week end talking to street racers and posers alike and getting people interested. The race series did very well until personalities up top killed it.

[PainfullySlow]

When I was involved with a race series in NM we did just that and it worked. I'd have to look up the particulars but we had a burnout contest, bands, bikini contest some shit for kids. We were out every week end talking to street racers and posers alike and getting people interested. The race series did very well until personalities up top killed it.

Out of curiosity how far was it from those groups of people to the track?

I think I can convince a bunch of people at a bike show/bike night to travel an hour or so, but for me its 3 hours and most people I find simply arent that interested to warrant that much travel time.

[butcher bergs]

I realize some of the comments are strictly based on the topic of this thread but for conversation purposes, Alex D, all of what you said is great on paper but why is anyone on this forum saying that it is up to the racers to essentially advertise for the club so the track has their utilities paid?

As a business, if I had income from a specific event that paid any portion of my bills, I wouldn't be expecting/ hoping/ asking/ etc my customers to advertise and spread the word for me. I am the provider of a venue and as a provider it is my responsibility to pull in as many bodies as possible in order to support the event and therefore have my utilities paid rather than relying on my customers as my sole source of advertising.

I too listen to Greg and the Morning Buzz (well, Rock 101 in general) and I have heard the same NASCAR commercial countless times in the last week or so. I can't imagine that a 15 or 30 second commercial spot costs a whole bunch of money on a NH radio station especially given the fact the Gerry Gappens is a semi-regular on the show. Nary a mention of motorcycle racing of any kind, ever, even during The Classic with the exception of this year when Mr Gappens did mention The Classic however that was the first and only time I have heard of anything that associates NHMS with motorcycle racing.

IMO, being NASCAR-centric isn't working for any of the other events that take place all through out the year and I like to think that a good start would be to attract NASCAR fans during the time that particular event is taking place. I imagine it would be a great and cost-effective start to bringing people in for the LRRS events, in addition to relying on the racers to bring their friends.

"Thank you for purchasing tickets to NASCAR at NHMS. Here is a free one-day voucher for any LRRS event of your choosing in 20xx"

I dunno....just thinking outloud here

[mzdagrl]

I realize some of the comments are strictly based on the topic of this thread but for conversation purposes, Alex D, all of what you said is great on paper but why is anyone on this forum saying that it is up to the racers to essentially advertise for the club so the track has their utilities paid?

As a business, if I had income from a specific event that paid any portion of my bills, I wouldn't be expecting/ hoping/ asking/ etc my customers to advertise and spread the word for me. I am the provider of a venue and as a provider it is my responsibility to pull in as many bodies as possible in order to support the event and therefore have my utilities paid rather than relying on my customers as my sole source of advertising.

I too listen to Greg and the Morning Buzz (well, Rock 101 in general) and I have heard the same NASCAR commercial countless times in the last week or so. I can't imagine that a 15 or 30 second commercial spot costs a whole bunch of money on a NH radio station especially given the fact the Gerry Gappens is a semi-regular on the show. Nary a mention of motorcycle racing of any kind, ever, even during The Classic with the exception of this year when Mr Gappens did mention The Classic however that was the first and only time I have heard of anything that associates NHMS with motorcycle racing.

IMO, being NASCAR-centric isn't working for any of the other events that take place all through out the year and I like to think that a good start would be to attract NASCAR fans during the time that particular event is taking place. I imagine it would be a great and cost-effective start to bringing people in for the LRRS events, in addition to relying on the racers to bring their friends.

"Thank you for purchasing tickets to NASCAR at NHMS. Here is a free one-day voucher for any LRRS event of your choosing in 20xx"

I dunno....just thinking outloud here

That would be great in theory, but realistically, NHMS makes just enough money on the racers to float the LRRS weekends. If they didn't, we wouldnt even be there. However, they don't really make money on us, so I doubt they'll start giving away free tickets to anything, as it devalues the product. Why spend money when you can get it for free? Personally, I love the idea if it is a one-shot deal with very little choice ("This weekend only, get a one-day voucher for a single day admission for October 4th, 2014"). It's less likely to happen if people have time to think on it. On the other hand, if they are given something for free that happens in ~2 weeks with a set day that they HAVE to use it, they would be more likely to go, rather than go home, lose it and completely forget about it by 2015.

I have presented a bundle of suggestions to higher-ups over the years, and they have all been shot down - even the free ones. The money to market LRRS is not there, whether by choice on their part or reality on our part. The only way to grow their budget is to make them more money. Sucks, but we are a club racing org.

[obsolete]

Out of curiosity how far was it from those groups of people to the track?

I think I can convince a bunch of people at a bike show/bike night to travel an hour or so, but for me its 3 hours and most people I find simply arent that interested to warrant that much travel time.

Very good point. It was in Albuquerque so I'd say max of an hour. Fortunately NH is filled with great rides and motorcycling is usually about getting out and riding so i think your target is up for a little longer travel distance. Maybe not 3 hours but maybe. I guess it's about hitting the right people at the right distances. Ducdave's ride to the races usually brings a few people so maybe more targeted group style rides is a good marketing technique.

Also from an anecdotal stand point from listening to what my father has been saying about his customers is that club numbers are going up. Seems like everyone wants to wear a vest and a patch. Maybe hitting up some of the clubs as using the track as an end point for charity rides might be a good idea.

just lobbing out ideas.

[cdovego]

I put my efforts into getting new racers into the sport and beating my friends over the head until they show up to spectate.

If we all did the same...positive growth year after year.

Wish I'd known about the brochures earlier, CMP could use a stack for next to the race bikes.

[mzdagrl]

Also from an anecdotal stand point from listening to what my father has been saying about his customers is that club numbers are going up. Seems like everyone wants to wear a vest and a patch. Maybe hitting up some of the clubs as using the track as an end point for charity rides might be a good idea.

That is probably a good route to start with.

[FirstDuc-1098]

... Ducdave's ride to the races usually brings a few people so maybe more targeted group style rides is a good marketing technique...

good thought. Maybe the dealers that sponsor teams and/or riders can put a little effort into that also. Get their customers involved and out to the races. Seacoast does some and with Dave. But imagine if Plaistow, Central Mass, Souhegan and the few others I can't think of off the top of my head, and countless others like National Powersports, all caused an extra 10 or 12 people to come over for each race weekend. And it would also help with recruiting new racers.

[cdovego]

good thought. Maybe the dealers that sponsor teams and/or riders can put a little effort into that also. Get their customers involved and out to the races. Seacoast does some and with Dave. But imagine if Plaistow, Central Mass, Souhegan and the few others I can't think of off the top of my head, and countless others like National Powersports, all caused an extra 10 or 12 people to come over for each race weekend. And it would also help with recruiting new racers.

Dude, seriously? They're pumping parts and cash into race programs. More is not needed from the sponsors - more should come from the racers, end of story.

[GingahNinjah]

Dude, seriously? They're pumping parts and cash into race programs. More is not needed from the sponsors - more should come from the racers, end of story.

Part of the problem with that Chris is that, and its been mentioned here already, racers have asked and offered up their own time and funding towards the promotion and advertisement of LRRS and NHMS has on multiple occasions refused and or told the racers that they are not permitted to do an advertising for LRRS. aside from the handshaking grassroots campaigning there isnt much more that we as racers can do to get butts in the seats and have spectators to put on a show for :/

[Mr. Kurtz]

I'm not the only one who understands that racers are the customers for LRRS, right? Like, the service they sell us is the race series, and we pay to participate.

[PainfullySlow]

Guys and gals, we are all here to try to solve the same problem: A lack of love for our sport =) Let's keep the ideas flowing and the criticisms to a minimum, ok?

I hadn't thought about the whole "club" scene before since to me it reeks of sons of anarchy but now that you mention it I went to a cycle gear bike night a few months back and there were a ton of vesties. It might not be a bad idea to start looking in that direction.

Organized rides to/from the races would probably go a long way too...maybe we can get NHMS to get a few bucks off admission if you show up on a motorcycle as a way to provide some incentive. After all, $10 gate fee is better than $0 gate fee. Just an idea.

I do realize that grass roots is really the only way this thing grows, I am just trying to find ways to even make that happen. If I had 500 LRRS brochures with a $5 off coupon in them for admission I bet I could have at least 3-4 different motorcycle related businesses put them up.

[jasnmar]

There's a "crew" that often shows up at MCN in Lowell wearing "cuts" as well. Might be interesting to approach them with some discount tickets if they were made available.

I get the "devalue the brand" argument, but there's also the supply and demand argument. If things like freemium can work (and many companies have proven that it can) then it can be a great way to attract business.

I also think more could be done with "local" motorcycle related businesses (Freedom, for example who is 10ish miles from the track).

Are there, or have there ever been LRRS t-shirts? An LRRS logo and some sort of racing image on the front with a schedule on the back. Wear them around as a discussion opener (believe it or not, my NESR shirts have opened discussion with motorcycle fans in Europe). He'll, if we got logo perm8ssion we could do a teespring thing.

[FirstDuc-1098]

Dude, seriously? They're pumping parts and cash into race programs. More is not needed from the sponsors - more should come from the racers, end of story.

I know a lot goes into parts/cash but are you saying CMP couldn't organize a monthly 'ride to the races' event?!? It would give these dealers an extra hook for getting customers into their shops and interest more into racing and motorcycling in general

I'm not the only one who understands that racers are the customers for LRRS, right? Like, the service they sell us is the race series, and we pay to participate.

and the more people we get to the races, the more that become racers, the more cost effective it is for all of us to play

[FirstDuc-1098]

... Are there, or have there ever been LRRS t-shirts? An LRRS logo and some sort of racing image on the front with a schedule on the back. Wear them around as a discussion opener (believe it or not, my NESR shirts have opened discussion with motorcycle fans in Europe). He'll, if we got logo perm8ssion we could do a teespring thing.

I've bought at least one shirt every year they've had them. This year they only had a shirt for the 'Classic' but in the past have also had 'Season' shirts with the schedule on the back. The season shirts are great and make you a walking billboard for the next event. They should have those available prior to the first race weekend.

[jasnmar]

Good to know. I don't think I've ever noticed one. Probably me just being a dunce.

[Mr. Kurtz]

and the more people we get to the races, the more that become racers, the more cost effective it is for all of us to play

I don't think that holds true, unless LRRS said "we're gonna lower entry/licensing costs as we get more racers."

Don't get me wrong; I think spectators are great. I think having people watching/cheering makes racing more fun, and having families and friends there makes the entire experience more enjoyable. I also recognize that "spectators" are potential future customers(racers). Being 4 hours from NHMS, it's a challenge, but I do try to get friends to come up, I encourage people on the forums to come out, and I've promoted LRRS at CT bike nights.

All that said...I guess after a few years, I've sort of come to accept that this is club racing, so the large majority of the people who are on site during our events are associated with the club: racers, family, friends, etc, and I'm fine with that, even it means we're never filling the stands.

It's also interesting that in these threads we all want more spectators...then when ASRA rolls in I hear numerous racers complain about out-of-towners taking their pit space, getting in their way on track, and when The Classic weekend rolls around I hear numerous racers complain about the Harley campers being noisy(not so much this year as there didn't seem to be any) and we caution everyone to watch their pits like a hawk because random people are walking around the pits.

I guess at this point, how NHMS markets the series doesn't matter to me. I love racing there, so I talk it up to anyone who'll listen. I assume most of you do too, and I think that's good enough.

[nhbubba]

I'm not the only one who understands that racers are the customers for LRRS, right? Like, the service they sell us is the race series, and we pay to participate.

Yes. This seems most obvious to me now. I thought LRRS was a separate entity and to a large extent, volunteer driven. Now that I know better, this seems quite true. The gate behavior, lack of publicity, and general atmosphere reinforce this.

[butcher bergs]

The money to market LRRS is not there, whether by choice on their part or reality on our part.

I have a hard time believing that a multi-million dollar company doesn't have (or hasn't had) a couple thousand to throw out there in order to fatten up attendence at any given event, in this case LRRS specifically.

There is money bleeding from somewhere.....someone's just gotta find it, scoop it up and put it to good use.



Also, in the interest of this topic, I called WHEB studios earlier today about advertising options. I will have number$ posted once I am in direct contact with someone only because I am deeply curious what it would really require to get a spot on the radio.

Are there, or have there ever been LRRS t-shirts? An LRRS logo and some sort of racing image on the front with a schedule on the back. Wear them around as a discussion opener (believe it or not, my NESR shirts have opened discussion with motorcycle fans in Europe). He'll, if we got logo perm8ssion we could do a teespring thing.

I have a sweet vintage sweatshirt back from 1990-something when AMA was racing there. I don't wear it often but when I do I get asked about it.

[cdovego]

Part of the problem with that Chris is that, and its been mentioned here already, racers have asked and offered up their own time and funding towards the promotion and advertisement of LRRS and NHMS has on multiple occasions refused and or told the racers that they are not permitted to do an advertising for LRRS. aside from the handshaking grassroots campaigning there isnt much more that we as racers can do to get butts in the seats and have spectators to put on a show for :/

I'm not one to let a little "don't do that" stop me. Build the marketing materials, start the website - I'll take the fall for it. I'll hand out flyers at the grocery store, give 'em to the girl scouts to hand out, whatever need be. What's NHMS going to do - get mad at you for too many people paying to get in the gates and watch us race?

[cdovego]

Tshirts are a no-brainer btw. LRRS branded tshirts with the schedule on back, $20 a pop - sizes xs (Brett) thru xl (Duncan) and boy's medium for Jim. Simple stuff, anybody around here connected to a screen printer?

[tsorfas]

It's so obvious who had/has their business or understands business well on this thread.

But just like mike said I love racing there. It is my favorite track and race series and id love to do things to make it grow and continue strong.

[mzdagrl]

I have a hard time believing that a multi-million dollar company doesn't have (or hasn't had) a couple thousand to throw out there in order to fatten up attendence at any given event, in this case LRRS specifically.

There is money bleeding from somewhere.....someone's just gotta find it, scoop it up and put it to good use.



Also, in the interest of this topic, I called WHEB studios earlier today about advertising options. I will have number$ posted once I am in direct contact with someone only because I am deeply curious what it would really require to get a spot on the radio.

Like I said, it could be "choice" on their part. they choose to put their entire marketing budget into NASCAR and a few flyers (which BTW, anyone is able to grab a stack of when they come out and deliver to local motorcycle shops, put up in your own business, bring to bike nights, etc. I have done this many times on my own.)

I have also called and emailed WHEB and got the party line that NHMS only wants them promoting NASCAR. I think that one has to go further up at both locations.

I'm not one to let a little "don't do that" stop me. Build the marketing materials, start the website - I'll take the fall for it. I'll hand out flyers at the grocery store, give 'em to the girl scouts to hand out, whatever need be. What's NHMS going to do - get mad at you for too many people paying to get in the gates and watch us race?

Please do. Also, the T-shirt thing would probably violate all sorts of copyrights and stuff....those shirts already exist in some form, as previously mentioned.