Shifting points on the hawk (calling Gino and John)

[tsorfas]

Ok so tell me if I'm doing his wrong.
Coming on the straight in 5th. I drop one to go into T1 which allows me to get on gas immediately after the Apex of 1A and hold it all the way to T3.
Then I drop to 3rd and up shift again at the top of the hill it 4th.
Right at the second cone I downshift to third again for the bowl.
Now here is where I mess up. I know that right by the stands I'm supposed to be up shifting to 4th.
I never carry enough speed to do so plus putting my food under the shifter (regular shift) feels impossible.
So I catch my up shift right before I flip the bike right for 8 and I carry 4th gear all the way to T11.
Right before I throw the bike left for T11 the moment I get on the brakes actually I drop a gear for 3rd and that's my exit gear coming out of T12 as well into the straight.

I know the bowl isn't doing it for me and I need work there but I seem to be covering a lot of ground on people in T7-T9.

[Trouble]

What's your gearing and is your motor built at all? That shift point was the main reason I switched to GP shift. Have you tried it? On a good drive I'm just at the rev limiter in 4th gear as I exit 8. I would think your giving up a lot of time and drive by shifting that late.

[Yknot]

Isnt that Jasons old bike? If it is that was 700 with cams.

[tsorfas]

From what I know the motor is stock on this bike. I have no idea to be honest with y'all. John I usually jump on the start so you should be able to tell how am I compared to a build motor.
I think it's more the rider than the bike that gives me the issue to not be able to shift before 7. You carry a lot more speed than me entering and exiting T6

[nt650hawk]

sounds right. go GP shift for that T6-T7 shift. or carry more roll speed into T6 so you don't have to downshift. Something I've been practicing

[tsorfas]

I guess that's what I need to know Gino. Is it worth staying in 4th and trying to increase roll speed in 6? Do you know if it makes it better or worse?

[nt650hawk]

It can choke you if you get it wrong. It's a tough one to master. Hell I'm still trying to get is nailed down. Its a whole lot leaned over and faster speeds than I am used to. I need to look at data on this. But I need to get more data.

647 has better midrange that the 700 so this is why I have been practicing this. My 700 chugs if I go in in 4th in T6. That is why I have gotten used to a downshift there. I might not have to worry about that next year!!!!!!!! will see....

[Trouble]

Yeah, I've given up trying to run the bowl in 4th with my 700. I feel like I can enter a touch quicker but I sacrifice my entire drive coming out. I should go back to experimenting on it now that I have a Qstar and can get hard data. My drive into 9 tells me that I'm quicker with the downshift.

[a13x]

You are running 4th thru T1a and T2? As I recall we'd all (the Hawk guys) grab another downshift to 3rd for a nice solid drive out of T2. I'd normally go 4th->3rd between T1A and T2 (I think).

I had a 700 and ran low 1:20's on it my rookie year (before going motard). Think it was...

5th (straight)
4th (T1)
4th (T1A)
3rd (T2)
4th (straight into T3)
3rd (T3)
3rd (T4)
4th (T5)
3rd (T6)
4th (T7)
3rd (T9)
4th (straight out of 10 into T11)
3rd (T11)
2nd (T11A, 12)
5th (straight repeat)

[a13x]

Ironically found this pic today on computer from my first Loudon race (2005) battling with Gino with Bob Stone behind us. 3 Hawks!

[tsorfas]

I def don't have 2nd anywhere and I think if I downshift to 3rd for 1 or 1a I think it would make the bike too unstable. I could be 100% wrong but that's why I'm asking advice and thank you for the feedback. I also hold 4th for t9 not 3rd

[a13x]

Gearing.

Also bear in mind Hawk's only have a 5-speed gearbox with 5th being a sort of 'Overdrive'. 5th/OD was made for the highway and putting that stock 45hp 650 twin into 5th/OD so it could chug along at 65-85mph at low RPMs (eating up miles on the American freeway). So really 2nd-4th are your usable gears with 5th just for the 'big' straights when 4th is redlined. You *can* roll 3rd out of T12 (joys of a twin) but getting a good drive out of there is pretty crucial and it's a super slow chicane. Having the bike geared so you can get strong drives out of T12, T2, T3, T6, T10 is the name of the game.

You are right about 3rd into T1. I played with that a bunch and it never worked too well. Also tried it into T1A but ultimately I was faster/smoother carrying rollspeed thru T1/T1A (you don't accelerate long out of T1, just a blip) and grab 3rd into T2.

Again all gearing and speed. A 1:17 lap on a Hawk is going to let the motor work much different than a 1:19 or a 1:21 etc.

[tsorfas]

If I do a 17 on a hawk ill retire

[Kurlon]

If I do a 17 on a hawk ill retire

Noted.

[PainfullySlow]

Ironically found this pic today on computer from my first Loudon race (2005) battling with Gino with Bob Stone behind us. 3 Hawks!

Hahah, I looked at this quickly and thought "Hey, I dont remember racing with Gino as a novice!" :-p

[MikeBike]

So, what is the optimum gearing with a 697cc built motor? 16/45T? or 16/46T? I am running 16/45 and I downshift into 3rd at T6 to pull my fat ass up the hill. It seams to work as this is my favorite corner to pass...