The Brakes Thread

[GixerJockey]

Oops... sorry OP.



The Braking Rotors are pretty damn good for the money.

[nhbubba]

It's like I say, I'm a convert. And I'll probably be throwing some money at everything in the stable this year to upgrade to braided lines, 'strom included. But there are many that claim the upgrade is not worth it; that pads are a far, far better place to spend money. I guess it is just another example of what free advice is sometimes worth.

I am hugely disappointed with the brakes on my 'strom right now. They seem to have progressively gotten worse and worse, despite upgrading to some premo 'performance' street pads (Galfer HH). It wasn't fine one day and sucky the next; it must have just degraded. I remember it braking reasonably okay once. Now it doesn't. The brake feel outright sucks and it requires a lot of all four fingers on the lever to do a solid panic stop. Get lazy and try to 2 finger it and you are in trouble. I've had some tell me I must have air in my lines. Although I've bled the system a couple times and am ready to give up and throw the lines away. The bike is barely 3 years old. I'm worried the ABS bits are partly to blame.

Anyway. Yeah, braided lines.. worth the dough it seems.

[OreoGaborio]

But there are many that claim the upgrade is not worth it; that pads are a far, far better place to spend money.

Colin, as I said in an earlier... it's a system. Pads, Calipers, Lines, Master, Fluid.... they all work together to achieve the desired results.

If you're fixing up a braking system that you're not happy with if it was once working well... First thing's first... fresh fluid & make sure you purge every last atom of air.

[nhbubba]

Right. But like any system, some parts are going to be more than adequate from the factory and some aren't. The prevailing wisdom I'd read elsewhere had been that brand new rubber lines were more than adequate for most of us. It is a point worth raising, worth discussing. This is most specifically in response to Chip's list. It seems I might reverse his first two items; pads, then lines.

Basically the same point you all are raising regarding OE SV calipers.

[TheIglu]

Colin, as I said in an earlier... it's a system. Pads, Calipers, Lines, Master, Fluid.... they all work together to achieve the desired results.

First thing's first when fixing up a braking system that you're not happy with if it was once working well... Fresh fluid & make sure you purge every last atom of air.

His braking system either has a bulging line or air, it's pretty bad on lever feel. And once I saw where the lines run, man, I can't imagine a way to really get the air out of that system. The ABS module is nearly at the back of the bike.....

[nhbubba]

It's under your ass, right behind the rear shock. It is solid lines everywhere except at the front of the bike. Supposedly it can be gravity bled. I've gravity bled it twice now and pumped fresh, quality fluid through the whole thing. Lines look perfect.

But anyway.

[OreoGaborio]

Right. But like any system, some parts are going to be more than adequate from the factory and some aren't.

Well duh.

The prevailing wisdom I'd read elsewhere had been that brand new rubber lines were more than adequate for most of us. It is a point worth raising, worth discussing.

Do you want "adequate" or "exceptional"? If you're street riding and want a nice progressive feel but still good enough for a solid emergency stop then yeah, rubber lines are fine... If we're talking about agressive street/track riding, then you want something that's going to continue to perform when the demands are much higher, for a longer duration of time and much more frequent.

So are we talking about easy street riding or performance riding? What are the current weaknesses of the system? What are you trying to accomplish? Cuz that's gonna determine your approach.

This is most specifically in response to Chip's list. It seems I might reverse his first two items; pads, then lines.

Basically the same point you all are raising regarding OE SV calipers.

Don't nit pick the list... I'll repeat the sentiment I just made above: Are we talking about easy street riding or performance riding? What are the current weaknesses of the system? What are you trying to accomplish? Cuz that's gonna determine your approach. Depending on your needs the list chip made could vary a little but that's generally the typical order.

[TheIglu]

Only other problem would be sticky seals/pistons/slides on your calipers. Bad pads don't give you mush at the lever, just means a lot of effort to stop, like you are squeezing a block of wood. Something is up, and it isn't pads.

[OreoGaborio]

And Clayton just brought up another good point... if one part of the braking system is in neglected condition (crap encrusted pistons for example) then throwing lines at it isn't really going to help all that much.

[nhbubba]

Sorry to nitpick. Back to your regularly scheduled serious bizness.

FWIW: I also pulled, cleaned, and inspected the calipers. They were nasty, but cleaned up well. I am confident the pistons move just fine.
I'm currently of the opinion that there is a weak spot in one of my lines. Somewhere, somehow that I can't see or just didn't notice.
The alternative argument is that I suck at bleeding brakes. Another strong possibility.

[Chippertheripper]

If the lines go up, down, and around you could bleed and bleed and bleed and still have a problem.
Ask me how I know...
Fuckin Ducati...

[Jim]

this wont apply to the occasional track day riders, but on my bike...

• (every other race weekend) take pads out to measure for thickness and even wear
• (every other race weekend) push caliper pistons out and clean with diluted simple green using a tooth brush
• replace brake fluid pre and mid season

i get approx 30-35 races and 5 track days a season on my bike. after 3 seasons, i finally need to rebuild my calipers.

[nhbubba]

If the lines go up, down, and around you could bleed and bleed and bleed and still have a problem.
Ask me how I know...
Fuckin Ducati...

This discussion got me going back to them manual. There is no special bleeding instructions for the ABS model vs a non ABS model. The ABS instructions refer back to the base manual which says to pressure bleed using the standard squeeze lever-crack bleeder-repeat method.

The interwebz say my model can be gravity bled too. Maybe that's bad info. I dunno.

My opinion is that if you have solid brake feel, don't fuck with your lines. Doing so means you have to bleed. Wait to be like me and already have sloppy feel. Then use that as an excuse to spend money on upgraded lines.

It may be nit picking. But I'm still with the rest of the interwebz: pads, then lines and top shelf fluid.

[nhbubba]

It's like I say, I'm a convert. And I'll probably be throwing some money at everything in the stable this year to upgrade to braided lines, 'strom included. But there are many that claim the upgrade is not worth it; that pads are a far, far better place to spend money. I guess it is just another example of what free advice is sometimes worth.

I just priced it.. for the KLX.. $75 w/o shopping around.. for the V-Strom.. $256 is the best I can find. Thank you ABS!

Maaaybe I'll just hand this machine over to a pro and ask them to swap the fluid and flush instead.

[jasnmar]

Maaaybe I'll just hand this machine over to a pro and ask them to swap the fluid and flush instead.

Why why why would you do that?

[nhbubba]

Because apparently I am not capable or equipped to get these brakes right!

[jasnmar]

That's just silly.

If I can figure out a fluid swap on the GL, you can figure out that thing...

[LXnastynotch93]

Does anyone have any experience with Brake Tech CNC rotors? I'm not looking to use the iron rotors just the regular steel ones.

Planning on using Vesrah sintered pads but not the RJL pads.

[OreoGaborio]

What's the reasoning behind upgrading the rotors but not the pads?

[LXnastynotch93]

What's the reasoning behind upgrading the rotors but not the pads?

I have a warped rotor. Once the brakes get hot the front end shakes hard under braking and the lever pulses.

I thought the regular sintered pads would be good enough?

[OreoGaborio]

What's the application? I used the RJL's on the track w/ my SV and they seemed like a great overall performance pad, suitable for the street or track.


Before you replace the rotors, check to make sure it's not just the rotor carrier. Sometimes it's just the rotor carrier that's bent if it got bumped by something. Easy fix (just get a piece of scrap wood & a hammer & tap away.)

Check run-out by taping a pencil or something to the fork leg with the tip just barely touching the rotor and spinning the tire.

[LXnastynotch93]

What's the application? I used the RJL's on the track w/ my SV and they seemed like a great overall performance pad, suitable for the street or track.


Before you replace the rotors, check to make sure it's not just the rotor carrier. Sometimes it's just the rotor carrier that's bent if it got bumped by something. Easy fix (just get a piece of scrap wood & a hammer & tap away.)

Check run-out by taping a pencil or something to the fork leg with the tip just barely touching the rotor and spinning the tire.

It's a 2000 GSX-R750. I'll be doing mostly street with a few track days sprinkled in.

I'll check the runout as well. It didn't happen until half way through the ride when the brakes were hot, so I'm thinking warped rotor. The rotors are also near the end of their life so I figured I'll just drop the cash now.

[Jim]

why buy new? get your rotor straightened for the $10 it costs

[LXnastynotch93]

why buy new? get your rotor straightened for the $10 it costs

Where can I get my rotors straightened?

[Jim]

Where can I get my rotors straightened?

http://willsrimrepair.com/