Oil lines leaking from the sump

[Ericthejet]

Doing a bit of work on the 1984 Ninja 900.
It has a small oil cooler mounted down low and I have flex oil cooler lines due to the header pipes not allowing oem lines.

Last week while messing with other issues I realized that the lines from the cooler at the sump both leak oil. I have copper gaskets(washers) in place but have realized that they need to be changed.

I know on some automotive applications a gasket is used with the oil drain plug and these seem to be made of a fiber or aluminum.
As I live in a smaller town with limited options would one of these be suitable to use in place of copper gaskets?

The fittings that attach to the sump anr not the type with a collar that presses up against a fitting in the sump but rather a bolt that passes thru a square fitting on the oil line with gaskets on either side.

Thanks.

[SSearchVT]

From your description it sounds like you're using a banjo bolt with gaskets. The best option would be to use replacement copper gaskets, aluminum would be the next choice - I'd avoid fiber.

Take the old gasket in with you and check at Napa - I have better luck there then Advance Auto and Auto Zone. Another option is McMaster.com - they have everything.

[Ericthejet]

All right then.
I hope that I can locate some copper gaskets for the banjo bolts as you mention if not then aluminum.
Thanks.

[stoinkythepig]

Take the copper seals out and heat them up with a propane torch to anneal them (they will change color when you applied enough heat). This softens the work hardened copper and makes them re-useable such that they will seal without over torqueing the banjo bolt. You can use the same ones over and over for years this way. Or you can wait a week for your dealer to get you new ones since they are not generally easy to find locally.

[KB]

No shit. Stoinky you my man never stop amazing me with your up the sleeve tricks.

Great tip.

KB

[Kurlon]

I was told to stop using a copper gasket after 3 annealings? (Granted, thats a head gasket vs banjo bolt gaskets...

Try a MC shop, most should have a selection of those in stock.

[stoinkythepig]

I was told to stop using a copper gasket after 3 annealings? (Granted, thats a head gasket vs banjo bolt gaskets...

Try a MC shop, most should have a selection of those in stock.

They keep getting thinner every time, so I can see why there would be a limit on head gaskets.

[stoinkythepig]

No shit. Stoinky you my man never stop amazing me with your up the sleeve tricks.

Great tip.

KB

Thanks, I love keeping old stuff running forever on the cheap. My 86 conc required constant repairs after 100k

[KB]

100k holy crap!!

KB

[stoinkythepig]

100k holy crap!!

KB

The guy that taught me the annealing trick put 290,000 miles on a Concours. He knows every trick in the book.

[Ericthejet]

New copper gaskets installed. Holding back the oil just fine.
I can finally install the plastics and fight with their alignment.

Any tricks for that?
On a side note my bike seems to have a very smooth idle this year. The sound from the Hindle is constant, no blips. Mileage now at 120100km.

Now, about those tires.

[SSearchVT]

Plastic alignments not that tough. Tricks I've picked up - Do it in a warm shop, they're more flexible, less likely to fight you, or crack. Grab a fistfull of longer bolts - use these to get everything lined up, replace them one at a time - start all the bolts before thinking about snugging any of them down. If you have the annoying plastic clips, or screws - play with them on the bench and figure out exactly how they work - it makes it easier when you're laying on your back under the bike playing twister trying to get them in place.

[Ericthejet]

Thanks, I'll follow your advice to align first, tighten second.
I think my next bike will be a Z1000 or Honda 919. Pfft.

[Cerberus]

Doing a bit of work on the 1984 Ninja 900.
It has a small oil cooler mounted down low and I have flex oil cooler lines due to the header pipes not allowing oem lines.

Last week while messing with other issues I realized that the lines from the cooler at the sump both leak oil. I have copper gaskets(washers) in place but have realized that they need to be changed.

I know on some automotive applications a gasket is used with the oil drain plug and these seem to be made of a fiber or aluminum.
As I live in a smaller town with limited options would one of these be suitable to use in place of copper gaskets?

The fittings that attach to the sump anr not the type with a collar that presses up against a fitting in the sump but rather a bolt that passes thru a square fitting on the oil line with gaskets on either side.

Thanks.

best sealing washers i've found are an luminum washer with a raised lip rubber seal bonded to the washer at the ID
jaguar and mercedes use them on some trans cooler lines.

of course you might have a challenge finding them locally..
i'd do some web searching for them

[Cerberus]

All right then.
I hope that I can locate some copper gaskets for the banjo bolts as you mention if not then aluminum.
Thanks.

one other option is to retemper (soften) the copper gaskets you have so they can crush again and make a seal.

this is done by getting them really REALLY hot and then quenching them.
unlike with ferrous metals, this softens copper.

edit: i suppose i should read th thread more fully for updates before throwing my 2 cents in...

[stoinkythepig]

One other tip to add to plastic assembly, use a #3 Phillips screwdriver. Does not look like it will fit, but it does, perfectly. The belly pan is usually the hardest to fit.

[Ericthejet]

The belly pan fitting up to the mid section is a PITA.
As the bottom portion meets with the middle portion and they start to curve around the engine the fasteners seem to move away from their receivers.

Must locate larger hammer.

[butcher bergs]

Hang all your fairings loosly and work them into place from there.

Hang from the top down. Secure from the bottom up.

[Ericthejet]

Fairings will have to wait.
The front coolant pipe that connects to the water jackets has started to seep coolant from 2 of the outlets.
On the surface not a big job other than removing the headers and radiator.
I have some fresh coolant at the ready and the local store has a huge selection of o-rings needed.
Back in the garage I go after work to start the disassembly process..again. ;(

[stoinkythepig]

You may want to order the OEM O rings. I have never been able to get the right size locally.

When reassembling the headers to the head, bend the copper gaskets into a bit of an oval shape so that they stay in place on the head when fitting the headers.

If you feel like spending a little quality file/dremel time, you can claen up the exhaust ports and header inlets for better flow. Mine were really sloppily cast/welded.

[Ericthejet]

My headers are held in place with springs and the pipes sit over a flange bolted to the engine. Once I remove the springs I am left facing 4 small pipes about 1 inch in length. At least that is what it looks like.
It would be sweet if I had enough room not to need the removal of the header pipe.
That coolant pipe that presses into the water jackets I assume is a snug fir once fitted with fresh o-rings? A bit of white grease wiped on the o-rings would help installation?

[stoinkythepig]

Guessing aftermarket exhaust... never mind.

A little lube on the o rings is a must. You gotta clean out the holes they slide into too.

[SSearchVT]

Try wiping the O rings down with straight coolant - sometimes it's enough lube. This is of course after cleaning any scale or crud out of the jackets. This works pretty well for hoses too.

I put a very light coating of high temp never seize on exhaust gaskets and surfaces before putting them back together.

[Ericthejet]

Thanks guys.
I'll start on this tonight and with a bit of luck will have some good new to report.