Stuck clutch plates

[Billy]

Well in an attempt to use my bike this weekend for the first time since November (has been winterized) I discovered that my clutch plates are stuck together

First of all the bike won't start and I believe it's related to the stuck clutch plates. While I was troubleshooting the starting issue I discovered my second issue. If the bike is in gear, you're holding the clutch lever all the way in, the bike does not move freely.

Some of the recommendations I was given was to pump the clutch lever a bunch of times and they might free up. If that didn't work they said to put the bike in gear, pull in the clutch lever and rock the bike back and forth, but that might cause damage to the clutch fibers. Considering the bike is still under warranty, we took it to the dealership.

The oil in the bike was changed at 600 miles, and then again at 800 when it was winterized. When the oil was changed again at 800 miles there was a shitload of metal flakes in the oil. I know its normal at the 600 mile mark but 200 miles later with fresh oil, it was thick with flakes again. I have a funny feeling that might be linked to the clutch plate issue i'm having.

Anyone on this forum had stuck clutch plates before? Should I be worred about other internal engine damage?

[06ZX6R]

I dont know about Suzuki's warranty but Id be more worried about them saying it was abuse and you getting bent over for something that should be covered by warranty; hope you have a stand up dealer.

[Josephd14]

I wonder if this is what i'm having.. I have started my bike a few times over the winter, and let it run, never put it in gear though, just letting it run sometimes while testing work that i have been doing.. I bought a new Gear indicator, and i started it up to test it, and when i shift into 1st it jumps and clunks in to gear, but does not go anywhere once in gear with clutch in, now i changed out my fluid, and i had my clutch master cylinder off briefly when I changed out my chain, the clutch feels good when I pull it in.. Maybe some more bleeding? if the clutch plates were stuck would it not even go into gear?

[Billy]

I can shift my bike into all the gears, but when I pull in the clutch lever the bike wont move freeley and the bike doesnt crank when I try to start it.

[SSearchVT]

There should be a little drag if the bike is in gear, even with the clutch in. Can you turn over the bike in gear on a work stand?

[union]

I wonder if this is what i'm having.. I have started my bike a few times over the winter, and let it run, never put it in gear though, just letting it run sometimes while testing work that i have been doing.. I bought a new Gear indicator, and i started it up to test it, and when i shift into 1st it jumps and clunks in to gear, but does not go anywhere once in gear with clutch in, now i changed out my fluid, and i had my clutch master cylinder off briefly when I changed out my chain, the clutch feels good when I pull it in.. Maybe some more bleeding? if the clutch plates were stuck would it not even go into gear?

At little clunk and jump isnt out of the ordinary. A big one is. Its just how the transmissions work. Everything is just lining up again from rolling it around in neutral.

As for the stuck plates. no idea. Is the side stand down when youre trying to start it? It wont crank if its in gear and the sidestand down even with the clutch pulled in. Its just so you dont take off with it down and then have it toss you a bit down the road. Its a stupid mistake I do a couple of times every year. I always think I blew my motor but then I look down and the stand is still down.

[Billy]

Nope stand was up. I did everything properly. I even double checked the starting procedure in the manual and I did everything correctly.

[SSearchVT]

Make sure the oil level is correct. stand the bike up, and start it in neutral and let it warm up. with the engine still running work the clutch. If the plates are stuck together - you might get lucky and the vibration from the engine and spinning the basket in the oil while working it back and forth might loosen things up.

If that doesn't work -
- The safest way to fix it it to take the plates out of the basket, slide them apart, inspect them, and soak them in fresh oil if they are OK. Use the manual for the torque values and sequence for the basket and cover.

- The shadetree less safe method. Do this at your own risk. Start the bike in neutral, let it warm up. Sit on the bike and roll down a gentle hill or have a friend push you along on an open road or in a parking lot. While rolling, at idle shift into second (clutch in or our, shouldn't matter). The bike is in gear and rolling - be ready for it. Give it a little gas, let off, give it a little gas, let off, pull in the clutch, give it a little gas, let off. The plates should come apart. Good Luck...

[06ZX6R]

did your bike fall over anytime this winter? It might be a sensor that needs to be reset before it'll let you start the bike. Just throwing out ideas.

Alex

[Billy]

Well turns out it wasn't the clutch. The engine was hydrolocked with oil. The dealership is saying the repairs wont be covered under the warranty. Well I have a dispute with that.

This is direct quote from the 2006 GSX-R 750 manual that came with the bike on how to winterize the bike:

Storage Procedure (engine part):
1) Pour one tablespoon of motor oil into each spark plug hole. Reinstall spark plugs and crank the engine a few times.

2) Drain the engine oil throughly and refill crankcase with fresh oil all the way up to the filler hole.

Procedure for returning bike to service (engine part):
1) Drain all engine oil. Install a new oil filter and fill the engine with fresh oil as outlined in this manual

2) Remove spark plugs. Turn engine a few times. Reinstall spark plugs.

I followed these directions word for word and it caused my engine to hydrolock?!?!??! So I called the dealership back and spoke to them about how it's in the manual. They didnt have much to say but they said I could call Suzuki directly and see what they can do.

I called Suzuki and spoke to them about my current situation. They said they are going to investigate with the dealership what caused the bike to hydrolock since that shouldn't of happened during storage as long as I followed the directions, and I have the correct manual.

[KillBill]

Dude, good luck man. I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya. What's the cost of the estimate they gave you?

[Billy]

Im sooo freaking aggrivated right now. I mean it's one thing if I messed up, but I followed the manual word for word and it caused this to happen? Doesn't sound right to me. The dealership is kind of looking at it like I did the damange. Suzuki is neutral and wants to investigate the situation more to see if they can identify the cause of the hydrolock.

The only way I could have purposply hydrolock my bike is if I filled the engine up with oil to the filler cap and tried to start it, or shift the bike into gear with the oil filled all the way up to the filler cap and push the bike.

I did neither of these!!!! So how else could it of hydrolocked? I'm no expert with the internals of an engine but is it possible that there might be some kind of engine defect inside that allowed this to happen? Dealership says they didnt find anything wrong with the bike. They got it running smooth again but it's creating thick clouds of smoke in the parking lot.

[nerijusj]

Wow!!! You did all this storage procedure?! I never heard of such things as filling the bike with oil all to the top and removing the spark plugs and putting oil in there?! All I did for winterizing was put some stabil in the tank and fill it all the way up. That was it. When I took it out earlier this year it started right up.
Anyway, I hope Suzuki stands behind their product and these winterizing procedures and covers all the cost for you. Good luck.
BTW, it's creating clouds of smoke probably because some of that overfilled oil somehow squeezed it's way not in a right spot.

[Punjistick]

From what I understand, the reason for filling the oil to the top when it is stored for long periods of time is to ensure that the clutch remains wet with oil and does not dry out. Strange how the plates stuck together with lots of oil present.

Maybe suzuki got it wrong when they said fill it all the way up to the fill hole. Maybe it is a typo. When you called them did they confirm that the manual is correct. I find it strange that when you followed the manual to a T it caused the engine to hydrolock. Something must be wrong with their storage procedure and you should not have to pay for the labor.

[Billy]

From what I understand, the reason for filling the oil to the top when it is stored for long periods of time is to ensure that the clutch remains wet with oil and does not dry out. Strange how the plates stuck together with lots of oil present.

Maybe suzuki got it wrong when they said fill it all the way up to the fill hole. Maybe it is a typo. When you called them did they confirm that the manual is correct. I find it strange that when you followed the manual to a T it caused the engine to hydrolock. Something must be wrong with their storage procedure and you should not have to pay for the labor.

That is correct and to prevent condensation in the crankcase. It was cheap insurance so thats why i filled it all the way up. Suzuki did confirm that the manual I have it correct and there is no typo in the manual. I'm still in the process of fighting it.

[Awesome]

When you get the bike fixed, store it like everyone else does from now on. Those procedures are rediclous and just asking for trouble.

[Billy]

When you get the bike fixed, store it like everyone else does from now on. Those procedures are rediclous and just asking for trouble.

Dude trust me from now on i'm doing it the non manual way!!! Thats how I've always done it but I thought I'd be a good bike owner and take the extra precaution and do what the manual says since it's brand new and all. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER AGAIN!!!

[gmdboston]

Billy, Filling the oil to the top of the filler neck is a long standing tradition of long term storage. Leaving the bike dormant for a few months in a heated garage is not really that long term. I do not fill the crank case to the top, just change the oil and filter so the metal parts are not sitting on corrosive combustion gas contaminated oil for the winter. Also a few teaspoons of oil in the combustion chamber will not cause a motor to hydraulic lock. It takes much more than that. I would look carefully at your engine lay out. On the newer motors the cylinders are canted forward quite a bit. The transmission portion of the cases are also stacked up behind the cylinders. It's possible that with the crank case full, the oil level was above the rings on the pistons. Especially if two of the pistons were at or near BDC. In that case oil from the crank case would be able to seep past the rings over time. (Understand that the rings get a lot of help sealing against the cylinder walls from combustion pressure, which there was no of for months.) If you had the bike on a rear stand this would position the crank case even higher. Since there are only three fluids that cause a hydraulic lock, coolent (which would require a blown head gasket or a cracked head or cylinder), fuel (the GSXR is fuel injected and with out the pump running the fuel has no way to get past the "normally closed" fuel injectors. In the case of carburated motors, a gravity feed pet cock can fail and fill the combustion chamber with fuel, but you would smell it and likely have a puddle under the bike, or a lot of fuel in the crank case.) and oil. Oil is the most likely culprit and would explain the oil smoke from the exhaust. If the dealer had to replace the plugs to get it fired up, I vote for the over full crank case. As long as the connecting rods did not bend when it was turned over for the first time, the oil will burn off with a little time, and you'll be fine. I suspect that the manual was written by committee (as most things are done in corporate Japan) and no one caught the fact the out dated information was being incorporated into the manual. Bear in mind that most of the techs working in a dealership are not well trained when it comes to sorting problems out side the manual's check list. Give them a chance to find the problem and fix it. Large corporations move slow.

[Billy]

Just got a call back from Suzuki Corp. A total of 4 hours at $75 per hour ($300 total) was put into fixing the bike and the spark plugs were replaced once the bike started running smoothly, and Exhaust was taken apart and cleaned out.

Suzuki Corp is paying for the spark plugs, and 2 hours worth of labor. Suzuki Corp said the Service Manager at South Shore Motorsports is willing negotiate the remaining 2 hour labor cost.

Bike is ready to be picked up and is working perfectly fine from what Suzuki Corp is saying.

I had to admit, I thought Suzuki wasn't going to lift a finger but the fact they are willing to pay for the parts and half the labor kind of shocked me.

[benVFR]

So when you brought it out of hibernation and drained the oil out of the crank case you only put the correct running amount of oil back in right? If you didn't overfill the oil again then the oil would have had to seep up from the crankcase around the rings right?

Also Peter - did Ducati ever tell users to do this? Wouldn't you always flood the front cylinder in a Ducati with oil this way due to the engine orientation? Or is there something else in that engine that would prevent it?

And this is all just to keep a little water from condensing & then causing rust on internal steel parts such as the transmission or clutch?

[Billy]

Correct I drained ALL of the oil, but Pete's theory is that some of it might have seeped up into the cylinders over time since the piston was submerged in oil.

When I refilled the crankcase it was filled to the PROPER level.

[gmdboston]

So when you brought it out of hibernation and drained the oil out of the crank case you only put the correct running amount of oil back in right? If you didn't overfill the oil again then the oil would have had to seep up from the crankcase around the rings right?

Also Peter - did Ducati ever tell users to do this? Wouldn't you always flood the front cylinder in a Ducati with oil this way due to the engine orientation? Or is there something else in that engine that would prevent it?

And this is all just to keep a little water from condensing & then causing rust on internal steel parts such as the transmission or clutch?

It's done top prevent rust from condensation due to temp. fluctuations. I don't know if Ducati recommended it or not, but it's why the old BMW boxer twins would always smoke on start up. Unless you always used the center stand. The oil would take some time to get past the rings, maybe a few minutes or a few hours. Draining it would not have given the oil time to get past the rings and there would always be some residual that would burn off. Like I said as long as the connecting rods weren't bent from trying to turn over the motor, (most likely not) the bike will be fine. After a few hours of riding the last of the oil will burn off and he'll be fine.

[KillBill]

That's great news Billy. At least they are willing to cover some of the total repair cost. It proves that it NEVER hurts to ask.

When are we gonna get together and do some riding on the Gixxers?

Lata

[benVFR]

To add some levity when I was a kid my neighbor filled his brand new tractor all the way to the top of the oil fill when he got it home.

It blew up after about 5 minutes.

I made $50 a week mowing his lawn for the next 3-4 years. That was totally awesome considering I was was around 5th or 6th grade when it started and that was the late 80s. That was some serious coin to me at the time.

[dhuze]

My cousin worked at a gas station and had a lady pull in saying her car wouldn't stay running. She said she just had to but a couple gallons of oil in and thought she damaged it by running low on oil. She filled it to the top of the valve covers. He drained it but told her what she did and said she may have ruined her motor.