Look out sav!!! :teehee
Cliff's Cycles KTM
NETRA enduro B-vet
Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
Doesn't seem to happen that way these days from what I hear (I'm rarely at the track so I don't know for sure)Originally Posted by xsiliconkid
Maybe that is something that should be taught in penguin school.
Hey You! Don't throw the towel in yet. I haven't had a chance to watch you in action!
Vicki
Tough break but don't give up.. it is the exception and not the norm. You looked great out there, hope to see more of you on the grid.
Jim, Want to comment?
Gino
HAWK GT Racer Expert #929
2012 CCS LRRS ULSB Champion
2012 CCS LRRS P89 Champion
2008 CCS ULSB National Champion
ECKRACING Bridgestone Street & Competition Woodcraft MOTUL On Track Media Pine Motorparts Vanson Leathers
I had the same thing happen to me as a novice, same corner, same type of pass.
It's just a lack of experience to make a good judgement on a clean pass. Nothing more. I got passed a few times this weekend and I could have touched the other rider, no big deal. Once everyone is going in the same direction those things happen much less.
I'm glad you did not get hurt...and good job on the rest of your weekend. Keep it up
Tim
LRRS #44
Superbike Services 44
Look at the flip side of the coin, I had a blast racing with you. Highs and lows bro.
Central Mass Powersports #123
1000rr, zx10r, rmz450, RE classic, r6, S4Rs, xr123, sv650(2), cr250 and a box truck that leaks power steering fluid.
Welcome back I guessAs everyone said you can't let one bad experience get you down. At some point or another we all do something out there that we probably shouldn't have tried. Learning from it is one of the most important things you can do so you're not in that situation again. If the guy is truly dangerous he wont last long. People will get tired of him and he will be known to the officials. I'm still under the impression that it was just a stupid novice mistake.
I think its something that is taught at home from an early age. I was tapped this weekend from behind and still made a point of going to find the guy even though it wasn't my fault. I knew he was fine so mostly I just wanted to know what happened. Tried to help fix his bike but there wasn't much to do.
LRRS Am #331
Graphic Tailor / Woodcraft / Armour Bodies / Suomy / Cycle Performance Autobody / Shorai / ChickenHawk Racing
"tapped"
that's an interesting way of putting it. More like tapped, 'hey buddy, can you give me a ride through turn one I lost my bike.'
Tim
LRRS #44
Superbike Services 44
LOL, yea lets get that pix posted up here
Shit Corey says:
Well, looks like # 829 was the bike that stuffed me in 1 and continued on to bash his way through traffic the rest of the race (thank you OTM for the pics!). He is obviously faster than I am and I welcome him to a clean pass but I will have this guy on my watch list as will many others I hope, especially race officials.
End of rant, time to go faster so I don't need to worry about his antics!
Keeping in mind all that has been said above, I will just make a possible suggestion that I see from the video.
As you pass the bike, it appears to me that he is moving Right to Left - while your line is a Left to Right one. My guess is you spooked him a bit - and then braked earlier.
As we discuss at TTD's, if you are passing someone, you are going faster and will have to brake sooner (assuming equal braking ability).
Whenever I make that pass at a TTD, I just run it all the way down to the apex. I know in racing you want to sort of block the passee from repassing you, but when you do that - you risk what happened.
Again, just saying this because I'd like to see you keep racing and not having to deal with this crap.
Not laying blame - just making suggestions based on my 8 years of racing without a practice crash.
Tony, why would you want to practice crashing?
Tony I thought that he began braking as I passed him. I was looking way through the turn thinking he was 20 ft behind me by then. Maybe he let off the brakes after he saw me pass. It's hard to say but I'll keep it in mind for next time. I certainly didn't take any wild swoops back into his line after the pass but I could have been more conservative.
Conservative is for track days. Make the move during a race. (If you think you can get it done safely. And from the temp here, I think you did, and this jive ass turkey violated the code of conduct)
Cliff's Cycles KTM
NETRA enduro B-vet
Close your eyes, look deep in your soul, step outside yourself and let your mind go.
Things happen during a race. I don't know the guy JC passed and how he races or his personality. Tony gave the same account that I gave earlier in the thread.
I had a similar experience in 2012 in T9 when I ran wide and tried to get back into the space that would be occupied by another rider, by the time I got back there.
Your paths were crossing, as Tony said. Yours left to right (you crossed one of the long tar snakes from L to R) and his left to right. If you passed him and he wasn't braking fully yet, I could see how this could easily happen. If making an inside pass into T6, you may want to take a more inside line, to the left of that tar snake. This means that you'll have to make a harder steering input to get yourself to the apex and not run wide and high.
CCS/LRRS Expert#39, retired | Tony's Track Days, Instructor #11, retired
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I'm not sure if conservative is the word I would use. And by no means am I saying you were overly aggressive or in the wrong. I just feel there are steps people can take when passing that will reduce the chances of what you see on the video.
Here is my logic when I'm on the track.
Anyone you pass that crashes has the potential of taking you out. Therefore, I always try to make passes that ensured I wasn't putting myself at risk. This is not a matter of being nice or conservative - it's a matter of self preservation.
It seems like people are putting the blame on this other racer - as if he purposely hit the back of your bike? I am sure he realizes how that is not in his best interest, so I'm also pretty sure he did not do it on purpose.
Therefore, the logical explanation is he was unable to change his line and/or speed fast enough after you passed him - and therefore hit the back of your bike.
It's a straight up racing incident where no one is at fault. However, if your goal is to not have it happen again, I'm offering you a simple way to avoid it.
Don't pass someone - move in front of their bike - and begin braking.
Yes, it's completely legal and it may help you win the position... but in my mind it's not worth it. Obviously other racers/riders feel differently.
Last edited by TTD; 05-23-14 at 03:11 PM.
You're proably be right. Obviously you have seen many times the crashes and track time I have. But, this rider was wild and I wasn't the only one who he hit this weekend. He didn't have any 'line' to speak of. Personally I think he was trying the over/under and caught my rear wheel trying to get to my inside. But, it is what it is, done now. I assure you the next race I was much more tentative on passing him or anyone at all.
If he really was trying to go underneath you after you passed, then obviously it would be totally his fault and he needs to learn how to race.
I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but if he did hit others ( I didn't read the thread closely) then someone needs to talk to him.
did you bump?
Looking beyond this particular rider, and this particular incident, I think Tony makes a great point. It's kind of the same argument for street riding. If somebody cuts you off in traffic and turns you into a hood ornament, it's their fault on paper. But it's also your fault, because you gave them the opportunity. Maybe you could have positioned yourself differently, and reacted differently to the situation via lane position, etc.
I think it's important not to have any faith in your fellow racers on the novice level. Expect the unexpected, basically.
Anyways, you're looking great on the SV, and making me miss mine. I'm guessing I'll see you Sunday in Freetown!
Log into my.nhms.com. What color are your numbers at the bottom of the page?
CCS/LRRS Expert#39, retired | Tony's Track Days, Instructor #11, retired
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