NHMS - what would you change

[TTD]

I worry less about 12 than 2 because of the speed entering. I think 2 is the biggest hurdle to getting AMA back (assuming we fixed the 3/10 area, which is definitely doable.

[WinVT]

I worry less about 12 than 2 because of the speed entering. I think 2 is the biggest hurdle to getting AMA back (assuming we fixed the 3/10 area, which is definitely doable.

I really don't know how you'd go about changing 2 while keeping the nascar oval in tact. The problem is there is just not enough room there to provide adequate run off. I think all that can be done is maybe slowing the corner down a little and adding some more airfence to at least make it a little safer.... .

[Boosh]

I would have to agree with fixing the the bumps on the exit of 10 thru 11 those spots drives me nuts. the entrance to the braking zone to 3 like jimmy said

[G21forme]

I would have to agree with fixing the the bumps on the exit of 10 thru 11 those spots drives me nuts. the entrance to the braking zone to 3 like jimmy said

This! I'm a little slow guy and don't worry a about any bumps or transitions but these, lowsided in 10 once before and it wasn't fun.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Woodcraft]

I went around the track with Mat Mladin several years ago, and his biggest concerns on a Superbike were T2 and T12. Having ridden a Superbike when I had my 1098 (one that was 30 Hp slower than factory bikes) I can tell you that you can spin the tire way past the end of the airfence. That's where there would need to be changes to the shape of T2 and T12, slowing them down and creating exit barriers. There was some other stuff here and there, but those were the biggest ones to fix. All the AMA guys dislike the turn 3 runoff, but that was before we opened up the chute and completely padded the LHS.

We may not get the AMA back, and the biggest issue is always the racetrack itself. Until the fee structure changes so that tracks can actually make money, it's going to tough to get any new track to sign up in what has been a losing proposition in recent years. That's part of the blame for the current 5 race series - no one can afford to do it anymore.

[Pigman]

Obviously it will always be a Cost Vs. Profit situation....and for NHMS and the short race, track day and car season it’s a major factor. But, as Nascar does bring in the Revenues to keep the Head spot why can't we as riders and fans get together and find out what it would take to close that Gap and make it a reality!!! We can use this season to work collectively and get it paved!!!!! So we pitch together all ask their sponsors, friends, family and business to help get the job done. Why can’t we take this to another level and get it paved…..for the Riders!!!!!!!!!!


Just a thought for the peeps....

[nt650hawk]

Entrance into T11 seam that is about 1"-1.5 " wide that crosses the track (this keeps opening up more and more each year) and the T12 Seam 1/2 way up between the old and new pavement. Tires fit right into it and does upset the chassis.

Also address the old track sealant on the upper half of T12. This area is extremely slippery when wet, and puts you right into the wall/Air Fence (Thank you) (... A little too late as I smashed my tail bone into the concrete wall prior to the air fence)

T10 square sink hole.















What are the Ledgend Cars issues with the track surface? There's your answers.....

[GixerJockey]

What are the Ledgend Cars issues with the track surface? There's your answers.....

I don't follow...

[Rada]

They may have more influence as they are 4 wheelers.....

While on the subject of Legends. I also vote for belly pans with absorbent diapers for them...

I say that if we have to run them then they should too if they are on the road course...

[Kurlon]

I want to say the bellypan idea for legend cars has been downplayed in the past due to the inherent design of the car not allowing for an effective setup. Plus, they don't want to have a one track only car requirement.

[GingahNinjah]

Any news on what if any of what has been discussed here will be happening or not?!

[Woodcraft]

I visited the track and gave Tommy a list of concerns, many of which were on this list. As there is information to report on I will certainly let everyone know. Until they can see bare ground, not a whole lot is going to happen.

[Kurlon]

So, how many feet of snow are still on the track, and what will the snowbike class structure be for April?

[Chippertheripper]

After seeing Paul's post that they wouldn't make things real for him, I'll reiterate my original sentiments.
Change: the management.

[Yknot]

Definately a loss that could have more of an impact than a few bumps on the track.

[snwbrdr435]

I want to say the bellypan idea for legend cars has been downplayed in the past due to the inherent design of the car not allowing for an effective setup. Plus, they don't want to have a one track only car requirement.

Well LRRS requires Eject system in helmets....

[Dave603]

I think that a repave would be great.. but the problems we are talking about now (in regards to bumps) won't they only resurface again and again years down the road as the transitions onto the NASCAR oval are always going to be problematic? How much more would it be to redesign the track utilizing like someone said turns 5-8 OR build a completely new one out back? I mean is this something that is just completely out of the realm of doing? I feel that although excavating for a new track layout could be expensive paying for repaves every 5-8 years must be also? And heck if it was a safer and newer track that could attract more paying customers (even if it wasn't just motorcycles) wouldn't it be a win-win for both customers and owners? Especially if NASCAR puts NHMS back onto the chopping block for only 1 race a season the track would NEED to explore other ways of creating revenue. I feel it would be a much better business plan to be pro-active about that type of scenario and plan it out properly than to be re-active and scrambling to make ends meet.

[Kurlon]

Well LRRS requires Eject system in helmets....

LRRS is a one track series, IIRC during the Classic that requirement was waived for visiting racers?

[Woodcraft]

My opinion for what it's worth - is that the bumps are not a safety concern in and of themselves, they are part of a track. Most tracks have bumps on them, and the ones that don't - just wait a few years. You have to adjust what you do to deal with all types of things on a track - camber, elevation, pavement types, seams....it's all part of the game. Bumps certainly play into the strategy of how you attack a given corner and make for interesting challenges when riding. Now, with that said, some bumps get irritating and make it less fun to ride. For me, the bumps in 1, 2, 3, 8,12....they're just part of what you do. I've worked on perfecting my form there so that those bumps don't bother my motorcycle at all. Honestly they do not slow you down when you attack them properly. Turn 10-11, nothing I have tried can make those go away completely. I change what I do in proportion to the extent that I want to deal with those bumps, and I honestly don't like it except on a big bore bike the lets me wheelie over the later bumps after 10 (front wheel in the air fixes lots of them).

I can tell you that the track has considered some changes that add length to the track, adds a very cool road course section and addresses some areas that could use help. This is not a done deal by any means, but I'd love to see it. Even they make those changes, I'm sure that in 5-10 years some transitions will get a little bigger and we'll have to patch things up again - that's just how it goes. However, most of the current pavement has lasted since 1990, so it's not all that bad as far as track life goes. This would be a big project that involves serious time and money. In the interim, the track has invested a lot of money in safety improvements....more in the past few years than in the entire decade that came before it. I'm thankful for that. We have even more airfence coming to LRRS in 2014, which is great - we will be able to add padding in more places that we need it.

As always, don't hesitate to let me know if there is an improvement that you'd like to see. More information is always better. My interest is making NHMS the best it possibly can be for motorcycles, and I think we've made some good strides in recent years. It's a process, and when we work together with the track, things will continue to get better for us. I'm optimistic!

[butcher bergs]

LRRS is a one track series, IIRC during the Classic that requirement was waived for visiting racers?

Mandatory except when it hits the pocket book too hard.

[GixerJockey]

My opinion for what it's worth - is that the bumps are not a safety concern in and of themselves, they are part of a track. Most tracks have bumps on them, and the ones that don't - just wait a few years. You have to adjust what you do to deal with all types of things on a track - camber, elevation, pavement types, seams....it's all part of the game. Bumps certainly play into the strategy of how you attack a given corner and make for interesting challenges when riding. Now, with that said, some bumps get irritating and make it less fun to ride. For me, the bumps in 1, 2, 3, 8,12....they're just part of what you do. I've worked on perfecting my form there so that those bumps don't bother my motorcycle at all. Honestly they do not slow you down when you attack them properly. Turn 10-11, nothing I have tried can make those go away completely. I change what I do in proportion to the extent that I want to deal with those bumps, and I honestly don't like it except on a big bore bike the lets me wheelie over the later bumps after 10 (front wheel in the air fixes lots of them).

I can tell you that the track has considered some changes that add length to the track, adds a very cool road course section and addresses some areas that could use help. This is not a done deal by any means, but I'd love to see it. Even they make those changes, I'm sure that in 5-10 years some transitions will get a little bigger and we'll have to patch things up again - that's just how it goes. However, most of the current pavement has lasted since 1990, so it's not all that bad as far as track life goes. This would be a big project that involves serious time and money. In the interim, the track has invested a lot of money in safety improvements....more in the past few years than in the entire decade that came before it. I'm thankful for that. We have even more airfence coming to LRRS in 2014, which is great - we will be able to add padding in more places that we need it.

As always, don't hesitate to let me know if there is an improvement that you'd like to see. More information is always better. My interest is making NHMS the best it possibly can be for motorcycles, and I think we've made some good strides in recent years. It's a process, and when we work together with the track, things will continue to get better for us. I'm optimistic!

Soooo... 70 posts to find out that the track isn't going to do any upgrades? That's about what I figured. lol


I usually enjoy reading your posts, and almost always learn something from your experience. Unfortunately, this one sounds too much like "towing the company line". I'm reading, "quit whining about the bumps-they are what they are". "Ride like Eric Wood and just wheelie over the bumps in 10". and..."the track is considering some changes" which we know won't happen and is the just the track trying to keep us quiet, per usual.

I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack on you. It isn't. I'm just annoyed. It almost seemed like we had and ear, and a voice, that the track was listening to. And now it's just business as usual. We're getting some new air fence... whoop-de-do. Most of us helped pay for it via donations to the Air Fence Fund anyway. Loudon is a dangerous track and that's just the way it is. Some day the level of danger will outweigh my desire to ride and race at that track. Until then, I'll just put up with it since I have no faith that the management will do anything about it.

[CBR929RE]

Soooo... 70 posts to find out that the track isn't going to do any upgrades? That's about what I figured. lol


I usually enjoy reading your posts, and almost always learn something from your experience. Unfortunately, this one sounds too much like "towing the company line". I'm reading, "quit whining about the bumps-they are what they are". "Ride like Eric Wood and just wheelie over the bumps in 10". and..."the track is considering some changes" which we know won't happen and is the just the track trying to keep us quiet, per usual.

I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack on you. It isn't. I'm just annoyed. It almost seemed like we had and ear, and a voice, that the track was listening to. And now it's just business as usual. We're getting some new air fence... whoop-de-do. Most of us helped pay for it via donations to the Air Fence Fund anyway. Loudon is a dangerous track and that's just the way it is. Some day the level of danger will outweigh my desire to ride and race at that track. Until then, I'll just put up with it since I have no faith that the management will do anything about it.

sounds like someone peed in your Cheerios this morning. I think his post was good to keep us a little informed while not getting our hopes up that major changes ARE happening. I doubt we (as in all of everyone who has ever turned a wheel at NHMS) raised anywhere near enough to cover the cost of all the airfence they've bought over the last couple years. wasn't it something like $250k?

I think the past few years they've done some good improvements. pushing the inside wall back in t2 wasn't really for us and didn't affect safety that much but it made the side line around the turn slightly better. the nascar transitions are FAR better than they used to be. the airfence is welcome everywhere imo. the removed the tire walls that used to be put in across nascar 1 because people hit them a few times. I got lucky and my bike pushed it out of the way for me. they moved the tires in 1a further over as a result of the extra pavement there making it safer. they did the curbing changes in 4 and 9 but I don't see them as being much of anything to even talk about. so from what I've seen of the management they've done some good stuff to improve the track.

[butcher bergs]

I, for one, get your message, Noel, but I wouldn't being saying "whoop-de-do" to more airfence no matter how it shows up.

[wiggeywackyo]

I mirror the belly pans for Legend Cars sentiment. And more air fence is always awesome.

[Woodcraft]

Soooo... 70 posts to find out that the track isn't going to do any upgrades? That's about what I figured. lol


I usually enjoy reading your posts, and almost always learn something from your experience. Unfortunately, this one sounds too much like "towing the company line". I'm reading, "quit whining about the bumps-they are what they are". "Ride like Eric Wood and just wheelie over the bumps in 10". and..."the track is considering some changes" which we know won't happen and is the just the track trying to keep us quiet, per usual.

I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack on you. It isn't. I'm just annoyed. It almost seemed like we had and ear, and a voice, that the track was listening to. And now it's just business as usual. We're getting some new air fence... whoop-de-do. Most of us helped pay for it via donations to the Air Fence Fund anyway. Loudon is a dangerous track and that's just the way it is. Some day the level of danger will outweigh my desire to ride and race at that track. Until then, I'll just put up with it since I have no faith that the management will do anything about it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'll respect yours. My opinion is an honest one, and people who know me know that I will offer what I really think whether it aligns with the "company" or not. When I think it is needed I have certainly voiced my differences in opinion with the management at NHMS, and it is not always popular. However, when the smoke clears I have found that they have been receptive to stuff that really matters.

I have two interests here that I think are shared by all of us. First, I want the track to be as safe as it can be. I'd love a new road course out back or to have a nice new repave as much as anyone else on this forum. I love riding and racing and I would love to tackle a couple new corners at NHMS. However, I know that everything has to be prioritized and the money supply is finite. I certainly don't want to think anyone does not feel like they have an ear or a voice. However, when it comes to making suggestions I have to take into account what needs to happen first, and that is safety. My opinion about the bumps is just that - my opinion. What I said, I meant. There are things any rider can do to make them way better, and those skills are within everyone's reach...other than possibly turn 10-11, which is beyond my skills to fix at the moment. My "wheelie over the bumps" comment was half in jest, as there are others who can do what I cannot and I would love to learn from them. Would it be nicer if I didn't have to think about it....sure, but it's also a challenge to figure out which I (again, my opinion) like to try to tackle. With all this said, I have relayed every one of the concerns here to NHMS, regardless if I think they are priority #1 or #10. Your opinion does matter, and many times in the past opinions expressed here have helped spur changes.

Second, I want the sport to grow. I've been doing this for 25 years now and want to be able to do it for another 25 if my body can handle it. This is where things like the repave, reconfiguring the track and such come in. I am 100% positive that if we make some layout changes, repave some sections and then all talk about it to the other riders we know that it will bring a number of riders back to Loudon. This would be good for every one of us and I am actually quite optimistic about the possibilities down the road. However, saying it's going to happen would be jumping the gun as it's not my pocket book that has to open for all this work to be done. I can tell you that I've had input in several conversations and there are people at NHMS that are with us in our desire for changes. If they happen, just about everything we've talked about here will be taken care of. Patience and persistence will prevail. Again, I am hopeful of the potential outcome.