Any electrical guru's?

[snaggle]

So If I want to power 16 circuits excluding the subpanel I'm "ok"
But If I want to use the generator to run everything I must get a 200amp transfer switch.

Exactly!

[R7]

If your generator is 16,000watts and a 100amp breaker has a max load of 22,000 watts, why would you need to put the bigger 200amp thing in if the generator isn't even capeable making enough power to trip the 100amp breaker? Unless I'm confused here
I don't know, I'd just lift it on the deck

[ssg]

Originally posted by R7
I don't know, I'd just lift it on the deck

Shit is heavy, you should get a crane or something.

[ZX-12R]

Originally posted by R7
If your generator is 16,000watts and a 100amp breaker has a max load of 22,000 watts, why would you need to put the bigger 200amp thing in if the generator isn't even capeable making enough power to trip the 100amp breaker? Unless I'm confused here
I don't know, I'd just lift it on the deck

He would have to only if he was putting the transfer switch before his 200A breaker in his main panel. The generator might not put out a full 100A but the switch still needs to pass the full current of the main service when the generator is not operating.

I still find it highly unlikely that the entire house would be drawing over 100A let alone 100A on a single phase. If there is over 100A on a phase, some of the higher power devices should be moved to the other phase. It is best to keep the draw on the two phases about equal (within reason).

[Rice-rocket1]

Originally posted by ZX-12R
He would have to only if he was putting the transfer switch before his 200A breaker in his main panel. The generator might not put out a full 100A but the switch still needs to pass the full current of the main service when the generator is not operating.

nailed it right on the head.

If you do it that way just run what you need to-- heat, fridge, well pump some lighting.

If you have an automatic transfer with sub panel. It will be set up so that only the circuits that you need will be fed from that panel. The transfer switch will be fed from both the main panel and the generator switching itself from one feed to the other as needed. What it will entitle is relocating some of the circuits from the main panel circuit breakers to the generator sub panel circuit breakers. Then two of the breakers that once fed two of the circuits will be replaced with a new larger two pole breaker that will feed the new transfer switch. If power is lost feeding the transfer switch by either shutting off the breaker feeding it or loss of power the automatic unit will sense this and start the generator and then switch the transfer switch over to feed the sub panel with the needed circuits. If you do it with a manual transfer switch it is easier to get a manual transfer switch, start the generator and switch the transfer over to gen power and only run what is needed or you can have a manual transfer panel install and have the circuit swap done. It works just like the auto transfer except all steps are manual from starting the generator to flipping the transfer circuit switches.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks I'm understanding the process now, I was a bit confused beacuse people where talking of 2 ways to install the generator. Now I see the difference.

Now its convicing the wife to get the $1,200 ats with disconnect rather that just powering 16 circuits that comes with the unit.

You say there needs to be another subpanel and place the circuits in there instead of of the main circuit breaker. So there is going to be my existing main panel a sub panel and a transfer switch? Or is the transfer switch built into the subpanel?

TIA

[wylee]

Put a 200 amp double throw before the main panel and sell the 16 circuit transfer panel that came with the package. I think you would be happier in the long run without having the 16 circuit transfer panel.

Labor should be considerably cheaper on the 200 amp double throw, so the overall cost difference shouldn't be too much.



Definately get a crane!

[snaggle]

You currently have a transfer panel. Which is a sub panel with an automatic transfer switch built in. If you use this you will be swapping circuits from your main panel into it in essence making it a sub panel. This is the process that Rice Rocket was describing. If you want to run your whole house including the current 100 amp sub panel you will need a 200 amp transfer switch either an automatic or a manual one. This will be installed between the electric meter and the 200 amp main breaker in your panel. The 200 amp transfer switch will require a lot more labor and will probably involve at the least an inspection from the power company. Some Power co's (National Grid) also now a require a seperate service rated disconnect between the meter and the transfer switch. Sounds stupid but if you want power you have to do it their way.
Any way you do it you should definately talk to the electrician who is going to do the work for you BEFORE you go and buy anything else.

Labor should be considerably cheaper on the 200 amp double throw, so the overall cost difference shouldn't be too much.

The transfer panels are all prewired. They take no time to install. Anyone who can read and run a wire nut could do it in an hour or so.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks Snaggle These are questions I plan on asking the electrician.

I have these 3 options

1.) Use the 100amp ats that comes with the unit and power 16 circuits excluding the subpanel.
2.) Buy a 200amp ats that can included the subpanel I assume its 16 circuits as well.
3.) Buy a 200amp ats w/ service disconnect and put it in after the meter and before the main panel.

I know option 1.) would be the cheapest for me as I already have the ats that comes with the generator.

What about options 2.) & options 3.) which one would be less labor intensive?

Sound good?

[RandyO]

Originally posted by wylee
Put a 200 amp double throw before the main panel and sell the 16 circuit transfer panel that came with the package. I think you would be happier in the long run without having the 16 circuit transfer panel.

Labor should be considerably cheaper on the 200 amp double throw, so the overall cost difference shouldn't be too much.



Definately get a crane!

that's the way mine is hooked up, it actually makes your main panel become a sub panel by code definitions. it is simples cheapest easiest way that meets codes

[KevinB]

How often are you without power, once a year or monthly and for how long. That would determine the type of transfer switch I'd use, couple times a year for no more than 24 hrs. I'd stick with the one you have. If its going to out for a week or more I go with a 200 amp setup. Also, what fuel are you going to be running on, LP, natural gas, or gasoline. Transfer switch will be the least of your worries if you only have a few hours of run time.

Kevin

[Sidewinder]

I'm going to be feeding the Generator with LP, I say we go without power for longer than 24 hours about 3-4 times year!

And we lose power for 12-hours about 5 times a year.

We just happen to live in a place where there is tree's beyond trees that run through or next to the power lines. In a wind storm we lose power!

[RandyO]

Originally posted by Sidewinder
I'm going to be feeding the Generator with LP, I say we go without power for longer than 24 hours about 3-4 times year!

And we lose power for 12-hours about 5 times a year.

We just happen to live in a place where there is tree's beyond trees that run through or next to the power lines. In a wind storm we lose power!

that's why I bought a generator also.... BUT only a few weeks after I bought mine, PSNH came along and cut & trimmed hazard trees, and since then, they have kept with the program, in the past 10 years since I've had it, the power has only gone out a few times for a couple hours. I try to start & run my generator once a year, though run a full tank of fuel and change the oil

[Wishbone]

even still with that much lose 15 circuits would run the essentials if you don't have electric heat, hot water or cooking

again the guy you are gonna pay to do the job SHOULD help to look at what you have, do a load test, see what you need to live like normal, if you weren't in NH i would look at it for you for free. trying to give professional advice with out physically seeing the situation is tough

but if you don't want to sacrifice any of you normal power go with the main breaker and if you want a better price i could get you the parts at my cost if you know exactly what you need

[burnham]

16 circuits should do the job fine, I would mount the sub-panel
next to the main panel and swap the circuits over.
You will need to run a wire from the generator to the sub-panel, with some kind of disconnect at the generator.
The last time I did one I think it was around $1300, mostly labor.
It all depends what you have to work with.

[Sidewinder]

I think the generator comes with a manual Disconnect, And the ATS should be controling the powering on and off.

I'm guessing the 16 circuit way would be the least labor intensive?

I havent heard back from my electrical guy yet thats why I'm asking.

Thanks for the offer.

[Sidewinder]

Great link I dont even need to click it its pretty well said.

[daviid]

Originally posted by Sidewinder
I think the generator comes with a manual Disconnect, And the ATS should be controling the powering on and off.

I'm guessing the 16 circuit way would be the least labor intensive?

I havent heard back from my electrical guy yet thats why I'm asking.

Thanks for the offer.

Manual Disconnect and Automatic Transfer switch are in principle the same thing. except one is automatic.


Automatic Transfer Switch

Both the Primary & Generator cabling enter the ATS (yellow box), then head over to the Master Panel which then splits off to 2 sub panels

Dual MTS Setup

Left to right
Master Disconnect - Primary power enters here and splits off 2 different circuits
Secondary Disconnects - shut off one of the 2 individual feeds
Manual Transfer switches - the generator feed joins the primary feed here and then heads off to the Master AC Panels.

Single MTS Setup in AC Panel


these are "Manual Transfer Switches" built into the AC Panel. Select which feed you want and go

[daviid]

hope this helps you get the idea of what you will be setting up.

[Sidewinder]

Sweet thanks,

That must be a big house your powering

[daviid]

the first pic is a 19x29, & the 2nd pic is 11x28.

[burnham]

Without looking at it I would say the 16 circuit panel would require the least labor. You leave the disconnect at the generator in the "on" position. When you lose power the ATS will start the generator and backfeed only the 16 circuits automatically.