Question for the contractors on here

[slammp]

Getting ready to remodel the bathroom. I will be running 12 x 12 Marble tiles on the floor (after I rip up the existing 1970's baby blue tiles). I've laid ceramic tiles before and always used sand based grout. With the marble I want to keep the lines minimal and I know I do not want sand based. Questions are as follows:

A: what mortar would you recommend being that it is a bathroom (I'm not doing anywhere that would be directly hit with water such as the shower, but it will be subject to steam.

b: what grout and what should I use as a spacer(plastic x's are too wide)

Any advice is appreciated.

[G21forme]

you can get 1/8" spacers, not sure on the type and brand of mortar and grout but I can say I have done 30k$+ kitchen and tile jobs with my former father in-law and he always bought it from home depot or lowes.

[slammp]

Yeah Greg the tiles are from Lowe's so thats the plan.

[rvtjonny]

grout is used in the cracks not to lay tiles, you need thin set or mastic to set the tiles, and look for the wedges instead of the X spacers.

tip. use light thin set with light colored grout.

[BostonSVkid]

First off you need to make sure that the subfloor is sufficient enough for tile. You typically need 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" thick sub floor to help stiffen up the floor so it will not flex and cause the tiles to pop. Next you want to lay a Schluter Ditra sub base that will has a waffle design that help hold the tile.

Next be sure to back butter all the stones as well as laying thinset on the floor as well. The typical issue with stone tiles is they pop due to bad adhesion.

I would stick with a sanded grout because it is actually stronger than non sanded type and it looks better. As for the width of the grout joints I would go with 1/4" or 3/16". It harder to get it into 1/8" and if you dont get it the full depth of the grout joint, the grout could crack and fall over time.

EDITED

Oh and if you are using a light colored tile be sure to use WHITE thinset (or mastic) because the grey in the standard thinset can telegraph through the stone.

[slammp]

The current floor is tiled and about 30 years old with no cracking or flex whatsoever. I was planning on ripping up the existing tile. scraping up the old thin set and smoothing any imperfections. The I was going to go over the subfloor and add screws to make sure its absolutely stable. The Ditra sounds good, but in this case I think its overkill as I have no issues with flexing.

[tonup]

When it comes to something like this, nothing can really be overkill. Imagine all the time you take with the prep, laying, finish trim. Then barely 2 years later you get that hollow sound and pop. A customer I have had a "friend in the field" and now that friendship is done due to the guy not putting a proper under-layment and the floor is just busting loose. Guy told him the floor "seemed" fine. Small bath with not much traffic. Save yourself the frustration and money. Do it properly the first time.

I haven't touched much marble but I've heard to wet it before buttering due to its porosity. Plus one on the white mastic

[obsolete]

How thick is that Ditra sub base and how much better is it compared to regular 1/4 hard board for tile?

[stoinkythepig]

Round toothpicks, cut in half and inserted fat end down, work well for spacers to get thin grout lines.

[RyanNicholson]

I don't have much experience but after helping my parents do their entire first floor, all I'd suggest is to stay away from epoxy based grout.

[dhuze]

If you are putting in marble you need to use stainless steel screws on the subfloor. If there are nails pull them. Steel nails and screws rust and rust bleeds up through marble. You also need to use white morter under the tile or the color will bleed up through it. They make morer for marble use the good stuff.

[BostonSVkid]

I don't have much experience but after helping my parents do their entire first floor, all I'd suggest is to stay away from epoxy based grout.

Epoxy based grout is unnecessary unless its going to be wet all the time (like in a shower for example or commercial kitchen). Its a bitch to clean up.

[BostonSVkid]

The current floor is tiled and about 30 years old with no cracking or flex whatsoever. I was planning on ripping up the existing tile. scraping up the old thin set and smoothing any imperfections. The I was going to go over the subfloor and add screws to make sure its absolutely stable. The Ditra sounds good, but in this case I think its overkill as I have no issues with flexing.

Good luck "scraping" the tile off the existing subflooring. Its not that easy if it was laid right.

The ditra helps with not with just flexing but it helps hold tile better.

[BostonSVkid]

How thick is that Ditra sub base and how much better is it compared to regular 1/4 hard board for tile?

Its thinner and works better plain and simple.

[slammp]

Ok. Wish me luck. I'm sure it will be fun ( yeah right). In any case hard or easy it's getting done so thanks for all the input.

[tonup]

They make mortar for marble use the good stuff.

I do believe you are correct. If someone isn't sure when you get everything double check. Lowes and HD might not have the right answer. Just sayin.
It can be fun if you don't have to cut everything yourself. Don't forget the knee pads

[RyanNicholson]

Epoxy based grout is unnecessary unless its going to be wet all the time (like in a shower for example or commercial kitchen). Its a bitch to clean up.

haha yea it was suggested to my parents so they bought a shitload of it and we did like 18 sq/ft with it and it was such a pain in the ass they went out and bought the sand based stuff to finish the house, and didn't even care if that corner looked a bit different.

[slammp]

oh yeah I got knee pads - we (mostly me) did ceramic tile (1,200 sq ft) on the lower level last year after everybody flooded in the spring - that was after I ripped up the carpet and had a trench drain with a pump installed. My hands would randomly go numb for about a month after that job!

[BluGixxer]

Good luck "scraping" the tile off the existing subflooring. Its not that easy if it was laid right.

The ditra helps with not with just flexing but it helps hold tile better.

Here's my $0.02 cents about. Mr.Bosten Kid directions
If you want to do it again in a year or Two , don't listen to any of his advice.
If you only want to do it ONE time and enjoy the beautiful job for a long long time, read and reread everything he has posted, also the part about overkill. There is no such thing when it comes to prep a subfloor.
When scrapping old tile or what ever, and trying to "reuse " the subfloor doesn't work, it has to be a strong and "CLEAN " to get the best adheasion . If I could I would just quote all of his instructions ,
Good luck , its lots of fun and you get a great sence of satifaction when you see how nice it looks , just try not to have any toe stubbers.

[BostonSVkid]

Here's my $0.02 cents about. Mr.Bosten Kid directions
If you want to do it again in a year or Two , don't listen to any of his advice.
If you only want to do it ONE time and enjoy the beautiful job for a long long time, read and reread everything he has posted, also the part about overkill. There is no such thing when it comes to prep a subfloor.
When scrapping old tile or what ever, and trying to "reuse " the subfloor doesn't work, it has to be a strong and "CLEAN " to get the best adheasion . If I could I would just quote all of his instructions ,
Good luck , its lots of fun and you get a great sence of satifaction when you see how nice it looks , just try not to have any toe stubbers.

Its not worth having to go back and do it again. I am telling you, if you have 3/4" plywood only under the tile you are asking for cracking. My guess is under the tile you are about to rip up you will find a thin layer of plywood over the main subfloor. Make it easier on yourself and just rip that our and replace it.

Part of the issue with putting tile over plywood is that the plywood pulls the moisture of out the thinset and does not allow it to set.

The misconception about cementitious products is that it dries. This is not true at all. CP's actually cure due to a chemcial reaction.

Be sure if you are mixing your own thinset that you mix it correctly. A dry mix will not cure and bond correctly at all.

Good luck.

[BostonSVkid]

How thick is that Ditra sub base and how much better is it compared to regular 1/4 hard board for tile?

I have used this stuff before and it works too but if you do use this be sure to mesh tape the joints prior to laying the tile.

[slammp]

Dry wall mesh tape?

[BostonSVkid]

Dry wall mesh tape?

Yes

[rbrais]

I don't have much experience but after helping my parents do their entire first floor, all I'd suggest is to stay away from epoxy based grout.

I started using this epoxy grout that I picked up at Lowe's.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_328840-73069...C1%26page%3D14

It's pricy; about $20-$25 for a small pail of the two-part liquid and the box of powder. But I figured; hey, it doesn't stain, doesn't need sealing.....

Well I found out that it is hard to work with and doesn't go very far. It covered about a 3' x 4' section of 12" square tile. It probably would have cost me $500 to do both bathrooms with it. It does look great, but way too expensive.

One other note: You said you are using marble. Make sure it is made for floors. The only reason I say this is that polished marble is like glass and not made for floors. Step on it with wet feet and you'll end up on your ass. Not sure if building code allows for it either.

[slammp]

Picked up the tiles the white mastic and the ditra mat (actually happy that comes in a roll). Thanks for all the advice. I'll get the grout later - wife needs to pick that color.

Wish me luck.