Clutchless Shifting

[KillBill]

So, I experimented this weekend and it's crazy how much smoother it is shifting without the clutch. A little preload on the clutch, let off the throttle and BAM up a gear!

Everything I have read says that it's actually better and puts less stress on the engine.

[Awesome]

Try it with using the rev limiter instead of letting of the throttle. Now THAT is smooth.

[RandyO]

A little preload on the clutch, let off the throttle and BAM up a gear!

your good, I've never been able to get it to shift without using the shifter


all I can really say is if your shifting is smoother without the clutch, you should be practicing your clutched shifting rather than your clutchless shifting

clutchless shifting is only smoother than hamfisted clutch use

[KillBill]

I have to correct my original statement. I meant preloading on the gear with about 3 lbs of pressure.

I am not using that as my main means of shifting, i just thought it was cool and could be useful when doing higher speeds.

[RPloaded]

I agree it can be smooth when not using the clutch. I was always under the impression that clutchless shifting is hard on the shift forks. I am sure there is going to be a pros and cons list a mile long on this as there are supporters of both methods. 99% of the time I use the clutch; when I am pushing it hard I will not use it on 3-4-5-6 shifts but always on the 1-2 shift.

Anyone know the truth on long term shift fork damage due to this style of shifting?

Now that I think about it as my riding style has evolved I notice I am really just taking a light jab at the clutch when shifting instead of a full pull and release. Who knows maybe I have myself in bad habits now...........

[KillBill]

Sport Bike Clutchless Upshifting - Riding Skills Series - Sport Rider Magazine

[rebelpacket]

Under full accelleration, shifting without the clutch is much quicker, and better all around for your components. Under lazy accelleration, the clutch is your best bet. (remember every time those clutch plates come apart, and then come together, your going to get clutch bits in your oil (unless your riding a dry-clutch). I would think the obvious fact is, the less clutch bits in your oil, the better everything is.

[schleppy]

I recently started practicing this as well. The only time I really find it smoother than with a clutch is when you're going WOT. Using the clutch at WOT makes me feel as if I'm not holding onto the bike as best I can. Other than that clutch shifting (up or down) is far smoother IMHO.

As the OP said though, it is REALLY smooth at WOT. It literally just clicks right in when you get it right. And putting a littler preload on the shift lever really helps to make it go in smoothly.

So, WOT + clutchless shifting = win!

[KB]

So, I experimented this weekend and it's crazy how much smoother it is shifting without the clutch. A little preload on the clutch, let off the throttle and BAM up a gear!

Everything I have read says that it's actually better and puts less stress on the engine.

Welcome to 2007 Bill.

KB

[KillBill]

Welcome to 2007 Bill.

KB

Thank you! It's good to be here. I am really enjoying the use of electronic mail (email for short) and the use of high octane petrol.

The 90's was overrated

[SVRACER01]

i do it if im riding one handed and i also do it to downshift....TRY THAT!!

[FireFly]

[QUOTE=RPloaded;357609]I agree it can be smooth when not using the clutch. I was always under the impression that clutchless shifting is hard on the shift forks. I am sure there is going to be a pros and cons list a mile long on this as there are supporters of both methods. 99% of the time I use the clutch; when I am pushing it hard I will not use it on 3-4-5-6 shifts but always on the 1-2 shift.

Anyone know the truth on long term shift fork damage due to this style of shifting?


IF You do it right, it wont hurt anything. When u cut the throttle slightly between shifts, it takes the load off the transmission, letting u pop right up into the next gear. IF YOU Miss Gears / force & grindem in, eventually your gonna have problems. I know a guy who owns/runs (JP) a racebike/bike shop, who has 30 or 40 years of experience with this topic. He doesnt even use the clutch anymore except for getting outta first gear.
Clutchless, feels kinda like havin an automatic or a beefed up car with a shift kit. .. SINCE im a pussy about hurting my bike,,,, I do a clutchfree run once in a blue moon because im paranoid. I can shift just as quick with the clutch, the only advantage to this technique im guessing is at the track,enableing u to focus on stearing, not squeezing the left hand ( ehehhehe some call it the Stranger ehh heheh).. That is all

[KB]

Yeah there yah go take some advice from Firefag!!! Afterall he knows a guy that nows a guy from JP a racebike shop with 30 or 40 (not sure) years of experience. Stearing is afterall more important than using the clutch!!!

KB

[KB]

+1

[richw]

IDIOTS

Please list your names so i never buy a bike from you

Do I do this; yes sometimes under extreme circumstances and like up hill on a dirtbike.

It ain't good for anything

[Kitt]

I just installed the dynojet shifter last night... clutchless and harmless.

[FireFly]

Yeah there yah go take some advice from Firefag!!! Afterall he knows a guy that nows a guy from JP a racebike shop with 30 or 40 (not sure) years of experience. Stearing is afterall more important than using the clutch!!!

KB

His name is JP ya jackass.And its in NY. I could write a long rebuttle , but your just gonna flame me anyway. Fuggin Moose Nuckle.
If your leaning it over in a right turn, u want to keep ur left arm relaxed along the tank while still gripping the left clipon. The Reasoning is This: You want to contol your turn with your right arm by pushing and pulling. THe idea being that you dont want your arms fighting each other for control through the turn ( smoothness) Using the clutch forces u to use muscles in your left arm, although its brief, not having a sure grip with ur left hand at the wrong split second when u need it there, could mean the difference between crashing or recovery.

[OreoGaborio]

IDIOTS

Please list your names so i never buy a bike from you

Do I do this; yes sometimes under extreme circumstances and like up hill on a dirtbike.

It ain't good for anything

Hey Rich.... do you also believe masturbating makes you blind?

Speaking of which, clutchless shifting is like masturbating... absolutely nothing wrong w/ doing it, feels good, ya still get off & if ya know what you're doing it can be even better than the alternative.

[highsider]

His name is JP ya jackass.And its in NY. I could write a long rebuttle , but your just gonna flame me anyway. Fuggin Moose Nuckle.

Its "rebuttal", not "rebuttle".

Did you figure out if your clutch was burned out yet? You should go think about it some more.

[FireFly]

Dude its all good. ur not getting me to open my bike up again. Its friggin fine. Rich, people could only hope to buy a used sportbike from someone like myself. pete can attest to how OCD i am about taking care of my machine, mechanically and comsmeticly. YEAH DAWWWWWWGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!

[TTD]

I'm with Rebelpacket...

When shifting "lazy", like much of my street riding, I'll use clutch up and down.

On the track, when each upshift is happening at top of RPM range, I do not use it. I do not believe it causes any more harm than a clutch shift in these conditions. And I know that it helps you ride smoother, faster, and with less fatigue.

I also know some people will downshift without the clutch, but I don't recommend that (even though some of my instructors do it)

I think there is much more chance for damage to the tranny, and damage to your body, when downshifting without the clutch.

[OreoGaborio]

I'm with Rebelpacket...

When shifting "lazy", like much of my street riding, I'll use clutch up and down.

On the track, when each upshift is happening at top of RPM range, I do not use it. I do not believe it causes any more harm than a clutch shift in these conditions. And I know that it helps you ride smoother, faster, and with less fatigue.

I also know some people will downshift without the clutch, but I don't recommend that (even though some of my instructors do it)

I think there is much more chance for damage to the tranny, and damage to your body, when downshifting without the clutch.

+1.

Regarding clutchless downshifting, i've said it before & i'll say it again. I do it on a regular basis but I don't recommend it. I found myself having to re-encorporate the use of the clutch for downshifting back into my repertoire in places such as turn 11 where I'm leaned over, trail braking and downshifting. Do it wrong there & you can find yourself in NASCAR 4.

[richw]

Rounded dogs

[FireFly]

Rounded Dogs, Only if you Do it wrong. its all about keeping the main shaft and the countershaft in sync. Rounded dogs can also happen from halfassed shifts ex. when u slipp out of gear and hit a false neutral. Bad shifting with the clutch can be equallly damaging to a bike tranny. Preloading for clutchless upshifts etc.. will have negative consequences over time. There is No need to preload the shift lever. Your putting unneeded stress on the shift forks, over time this will lead to constantly popping out of gear and needed tranny repairs...

[TTD]

Agreed.

I never preload.

I don't want my foot touching the shifter... unless I'm shifting.