This cop doesn't seem too happy with this motorcyclist

[reiobard]

Right, because the leg doesn't have any critical arteries that can cause people to bleed to death...

You do realize that any gunshot has the potential to be lethal right? Not to mention the risk to all of the people around the rider? Maybe you've never heard of a stray bullet or a ricochet.

I still think that pulling his gun was the right move to gain control of the situation, but I don't believe that there were any circumstances that would have justified him using it except for the rider charging at the officer (which looked like a possibility with his lack of exit routes and his backing up with the bike still on and presumably in gear).

All i am saying is that it is a decision that needs to be made in the situation, and there is a possibility that it would be the right one. lots of the time it would be the wrong choice, but pulling it at least is the correct thing to do, even if to just give the rider a little shock factor to stop him.

I know any gunshot can be lethal, but a calculated shot can immobilize a person without a huge risk.

[MysteriousR1]

Right, because the leg doesn't have any critical arteries that can cause people to bleed to death...

You do realize that any gunshot has the potential to be lethal right? Not to mention the risk to all of the people around the rider? Maybe you've never heard of a stray bullet or a ricochet.

I still think that pulling his gun was the right move to gain control of the situation, but I don't believe that there were any circumstances that would have justified him using it except for the rider charging at the officer (which looked like a possibility with his lack of exit routes and his backing up with the bike still on and presumably in gear).

I agree. If you shoot someone and they survive i'd call that lucky. If you fire a gun at someone, the knee or not, you better be damn well prepared to kill them. So if the biker was pulling a 100 mph wheelie through a school zone he better open fire to stop him?....
Oh and my panties are unbunched at the moment, just debating as I see it.

[Danz19899]

Only thing i dont like is that he came out with the gun alone, a badge would have been nice.

Bike theft is a big problem and if that bike had been stolen the person riding it may have had a much different reaction.

Honestly those cops were smart, if you throw the lights on its far to easy for a 1k to just downshift and take off.

[reiobard]

I agree. If you shoot someone and they survive i'd call that lucky. If you fire a gun at someone, the knee or not, you better be damn well prepared to kill them. So if the biker was pulling a 100 mph wheelie through a school zone he better open fire to stop him?....

after you stop him on the highway like it shows on the video and he is getting prepared to make another run for it... yes.

Still in the crosswalk with kids around... No


all i am saying is that if i were the biker and was getting ready to make a break for it and i notice that a cop has his gun drawn (pointed at me or not) i am going to give a real strong second thought to running.

[ssg]

Shy of an imminent physical threat of deadly force to the officer there wouldn't be any rounds leaving the firearm, no way. This is one of the times when brandishing a firearm was more effective means to an end than actually using it.

[NobodySpecific]

I know any gunshot can be lethal, but a calculated shot can immobilize a person without a huge risk.

Bullshit! How can you say that a hot metal projectile tearing through flesh isn't a huge risk? You might be watching too much television. Especially if he is on a powerful motorcycle attempting to elude, there is no such thing as a calculated shot anymore. A well trained sniper might be able to consistently maim a subject without killing them, but that's about it.

[SVRACER01]

Wirelessly posted (Instinct: TELECA-/2.0 (BREW 3.1.5; U; EN-US; SAMSUNG; SPH-M800; Teleca/Q05A/INT) MMP/2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Maybe the cop thought he would pull a wheelie and then fire off some rounds at him

[reiobard]

Bullshit! How can you say that a hot metal projectile tearing through flesh isn't a huge risk? You might be watching too much television. Especially if he is on a powerful motorcycle attempting to elude, there is no such thing as a calculated shot anymore. A well trained sniper might be able to consistently maim a subject without killing them, but that's about it.

ok, i admit it you are right, i will start calling all the hospitals and telling them that if someone gets shot in the arm, or the calf just let them go, it is futile to even try with the hot metal projectile that they have had tear through their flesh.

best thing i can say it to not do anything that will get you shot and you won't die from a gunshot. if the biker DID something to warrant getting shot then it was his risk to take, lucky for him he just stopped.

[ssg]

"know your backdrop"

[NobodySpecific]

ok, i admit it you are right, i will start calling all the hospitals and telling them that if someone gets shot in the arm, or the calf just let them go, it is futile to even try with the hot metal projectile that they have had tear through their flesh.

best thing i can say it to not do anything that will get you shot and you won't die from a gunshot. if the biker DID something to warrant getting shot then it was his risk to take, lucky for him he just stopped.

Wow, you have a way of completely twisting my words. Remember, I'm the one who said that it WAS a huge risk to get shot, which would imply it would require immediate medical attention in order to mitigate the risk of death. Did I ever say that a gun shot guarantees death? I can only imagine the crimes that you believe warrant the death penalty. IMO speeding does not warrant getting shot.

[ssg]

How long is VinceF2's reply going to take, dammit

[reiobard]

According to a Harvard study about 65,000 people each year suffer gunshot wounds, but only about 30,000 die. So 46 percent of gunshot wounds are fatal. However, that includes all gunshot wounds, not separated by whether it was an accident or an intentional crime, and about half of the 30,000 are intentional suicides. So if you discount those completely then 15,000 out of 50,000 gunshot wounds are fatal or about 30%.

I would also have to think that head shots carry a higher fatality rate.

I never said to empty a clip in the guy for going 80 in a 55, I said that there are some situations that it would make sense to take the shot, not every time. you are twisting just as many words as me.

[NobodySpecific]

According to a Harvard study about 65,000 people each year suffer gunshot wounds, but only about 30,000 die. So 46 percent of gunshot wounds are fatal. However, that includes all gunshot wounds, not separated by whether it was an accident or an intentional crime, and about half of the 30,000 are intentional suicides. So if you discount those completely then 15,000 out of 50,000 gunshot wounds are fatal or about 30%.

I would also have to think that head shots carry a higher fatality rate.

I never said to empty a clip in the guy for going 80 in a 55, I said that there are some situations that it would make sense to take the shot, not every time. you are twisting just as many words as me.

I'm just confused, because I thought a responsible gun user is taught that you are never supposed to aim the gun at something you don't intend to destroy. A non-lethal gunshot is worlds apart from "without a huge risk". How many of those people had to go into emergency surgery? How many took months to recover? How many were paralyzed? Lost limbs?

[Doc]

I don't think cops are trained to "shoot to maim"

I think the pulling of the weapon was a rather rash decision. I don't think it needed to happen.

I think cops have a health waryness of sportbikers (why do you think that is?)

I think the motorcyclist more than likely did something to make the cop pissed.

[reiobard]

I'm just confused, because I thought a responsible gun user is taught that you are never supposed to aim the gun at something you don't intend to destroy.

yeah, that is actually on the cover of the NRA pamphlet.

[JonT]

arent police supposed to use less than lethal weapons? so maybe a tazer(sp?) or one of those guns that fire the bean bags and rubber bullets?

any cops on this forum? I mean it could be standard procedure or it could be that cop was having a bad day... but a uniformed officer should have been the one to do it. For the safety of the cop and the motorcyclist.

[NobodySpecific]

arent police supposed to use less than lethal weapons? so maybe a tazer(sp?) or one of those guns that fire the bean bags and rubber bullets?

any cops on this forum? I mean it could be standard procedure or it could be that cop was having a bad day... but a uniformed officer should have been the one to do it. For the safety of the cop and the motorcyclist.

The only problem is that the motorcyclist couldn't see the uniformed officer and was only presenting an immediate threat to the off-duty trooper.

[bryco13]

There's also the fact that leo's see a lot of bikers take off when the officer gets out of his vehicle. While nobody knows what this guy did or didn't do, and may think unholstering is a huge deal, it may be that states protocol to block a biker from the front to keep him from taking off, a pursuit, and more than likely an accident. I know people who see lights, slow down, and take off, i think it's stupid, and don't chose to ride with them, but if a trooper gets out of a vehicle with an unholstered weapon in front of them, they would think twice about running. Just my 2 cents.

[MonsterM636]

Some Cops can be Dip Sticks some times ,I got pulled over in Connecticut (Lost my Licence Plate along the way ) on Wed Two undercover Crownvics ,the Cops thanked me for pulling over ,we all behaved like adults as we are and showed all my paperwork and was on my way ,no need for Profanity or over use of authority

I just watched the longer version on the video ,pulling out the gun was unnecessary ,honestly if i was cut off by an unmarked car like that I would back up and be like W.T.F. ? .

[joeswamp]

The guy really needed to show a badge, jumping out of an unmarked car in street clothes while waving a gun is not exactly professional behavior for a speeding violation.

[MonsterM636]

The Badge would be enough ,the gun as a last option

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQHXiFKMxk

[Dieseldan]

hmmm interesting

[Omahastylin16]

you know, ive read this whole thread, and to be honest i cant help but side with the undercover cop. it wouldnt have taken much for this guy to take off and hit the cop.

the gun wasnt discharged, so whats the problem? call it over reacting, but if the gun wasnt discharged, wheres the problem?

[Trouble]

In the video I find it hard to tell how long the marked patrol car was behind the motorcyclist. The uniformed officer wasn't even out of the car while the exchange between the motorcyclist and the unmarked officer took place. I would doubt if the motorcyclist noticed the marked patrol car if it did pull up during the exchange. I wouldn't have.

To take the side of the motorcyclist, if a car pulled in front of me and the driver jumped out wielding a weapon (of any sort) damn straight I'd start to backpedal or look for an escape route. I'd be less likely to do that if he held up a badge. But that's me and I pull over for blue lights. I'm sure officers come across plenty of motorists that don't.

It does seem wierd that the video begins and ends where it does. I'd like to see more of the beginning of the video to see if the actions of the motorcyclist deserved the threat of deadly force.

[BMFR6]

should have just shot him.