crash site pictures

RSVMILLE661 · 06-23-04, 10:57 AM

When riding..*harder* on the street.. Not that I condone that type of activity now that I have found the race track.

I typically would use the the equasion of:

Speed limit X's 2 + 10 MPH = use of all back tire but still a bit of a buffer should things go wrong.

In this case it would have been:

Speed limit X's 2 + 20.. dangerous yes.. stupid hell yes. But in what turned out to be an emergency situation I feel the bike still could have made the corner. But then again that it is hard to say with out being there and physically seeing the corner first hand.

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
If your speed was 50, you wer NOT going to make it around the bend. On the other hand, if your speed was fifty, you'd probably be in the hospital from hitting that embankment.

Have you taken MSF? We teach you exactly how to avoid this, and deal with it if it does happen.

Yes, I've taken MSF (the beginner course) and learned about things like not grabbing the brakes in a turn, but I panicked and couldn't think of anything else at the moment.

I probably could have continued and made it through the turn after scrubbing off speed in the first second or so of braking, but I just freaked out and couldn't let go of the brakes until the bike hit the ground.

Then again, I could have tried to enter slower in the first place

**Honclfibr** · 06-23-04, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Have you taken MSF? We teach you exactly how to avoid this, and deal with it if it does happen.

Hmm, this brings up something we were talking about last night. Don't take this the wrong way, because I think MSF is great, I took it, would recommend it to anyone, it was my first time on a motorcycle ever and I couldn't imagine learning any other way.

With that said, MSF is a two or three day course, with one day spent riding. If you're attentive and pay attention, you're gonna learn from it what you *should* do, or at least I did. But no matter how much we want to learn and be a good rider, a good many of us (and I'm speaking from personal experience now) are gonna go right out and panic and do the wrong thing as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

So yeah, I learned in MSF not to stomp rear and grab front when I want to stop, and as soon as I got myself into an asspucker situation that's exactly what I did, stomp and grab. Scared the shit out of me, I went and did a whole bunch of parking lot practice, and guess what? My right boot still wants to slam down on that rear brake as soon as I get a bit skeered. It's gotten to the point where I can catch it right before it goes *stomp* but I'm still working on getting it out of my brain entirely.

So again, I'm in no way bashing the MSF course, hell I could probably benefit from taking the beginner course again myself, just saying that I don't think any course is gonna make you an experienced rider overnight...

**Honclfibr** · 06-23-04, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by elaineo
Yes, I've taken MSF (the beginner course) and learned about things like not grabbing the brakes in a turn, but I panicked and couldn't think of anything else at the moment.

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Mystery Squid
Road test!!!

Too bad we couldn't all go out there, have someone keep watch at the apex, and try this out!

awww they don't have these in FL?

**Paul_E_D** · 06-23-04, 11:07 AM

Good points! The MSF course does not make anyone an experienced rider. Only experience can. Elaine just got some. You now have some.

The techniques we teach are your best bet for survival, but you really need to practice them everytime you ride, or the skills won't be there when you really need them.

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Honclfibr

Though before one can trust one's tires maybe one needs to GET OFF ONE'S ASS AND GET THE GOOD TIRES ONE BOUGHT MOUNTED INSTEAD OF RIDING AROUND ON SHITTY ASS OEM TIRES WHICH ARE SCALLOPED AND FLATSPOTTED AND WAY PAST THEIR USEFUL LIFE

i was gonna do a track day in august and someone told me i should wait till right before then to change my tires so that i could have new tires for the track

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Most race bikes can't got through turn 3 at fifty, and that's a lot wider than the turn in the picture...

What????!!

hey that's where i had my last crash. heh. heh. heh.

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Mystery Squid
This good enough for you?

NOICE!!!!

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Mystery Squid
Sorry, my bad...

looks like you took a photo of the back of a printed circuit board

**bemused** · 06-23-04, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Mystery Squid
Sorry, my bad...

industrial park?

or housing development?

nice altitude changes!

**Stoneman** · 06-23-04, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by elaineo
Yes, I've taken MSF (the beginner course) and learned about things like not grabbing the brakes in a turn, but I panicked and couldn't think of anything else at the moment.

I probably could have continued and made it through the turn after scrubbing off speed in the first second or so of braking, but I just freaked out and couldn't let go of the brakes until the bike hit the ground.

These are the things that stand out to me while I sift through this thread. It does indeed sound like you've learned something. Now to just practice that...

Glad you're okay though. And yes, it looks like a great corner!

**MissTwisties** · 06-23-04, 11:41 AM

uhh...I always grab BOTH front and rear brakes when making a stop...even when slowing down.

**Kham** · 06-23-04, 12:04 PM

damn im late on this thread.

just wanna say nice 90 deg. curve

double post speed +10 you could make it but scary feeling like Scotty said and if you hang off the bike you would feel comfortable. i know this.

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Mystery Squid
Better than a picture of YOU!

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BURRRNNN
DAAAAAAMN NICE SHOT!! HIT ME WHERE IT HURTS WHY DONCHA

**Paul_E_D** · 06-23-04, 12:15 PM

The only thing I found with those type of speed limit rules of thumb is that they don't apply to decreasing radius turns. For these I need an entry speed closer to the posted limit so that I can roll on throttle all the way through the turn. My heads up is always a posted limit under 20 mph. That seems to indicate a hairpin, or decreasing radius. I set entry speed at the posted limit and accelerate through. I still end up cranked over pretty far.

**Thrill** · 06-23-04, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Good points! The MSF course does not make anyone an experienced rider. Only experience can. Elaine just got some. You now have some.

The techniques we teach are your best bet for survival, but you really need to practice them everytime you ride, or the skills won't be there when you really need them.

Agree with you for the most part, but MSF is not the BIBLE of street riding.....that's right.....I said it

No amount of teaching can replace experience (for the most part).

Now my 2 cents worth:

When I saw the picture of the turn the first time I thought, hell she could have made that turn.....and I thought she must have just paniced and braked liked hell

But it is a "natural" human reaction in that situation to just freeze up and brake.....

Now here's where you have to have the mindset to say and do ..... oh fuck I gotta lean way over and follow through the turn as you are saying it.... not after thinking it.....gotta be a natural reaction..... Not something that can be taught in a MSF class....

Every one has to ride within their capabilities/limits whatever they may be.....

here now

**patricia929** · 06-23-04, 01:26 PM

elanieo,
sorry about your crash but glad to hear that you're ok. i agree with what paul said about a slower entry speed going into a corner and then really accelerating out - especially on unfamiliar roads. i'll admit that i did the same thing myself a few years ago (but without the crashing part

) went into a corner too hot, grabbed a fistful of front brake and stood it up and ended up crossing the centerline. thankfully no one was in the other lane. i knew it was the total wrong thing to do but survival instincts kicked in and i couldn't help myself. scared the hell out of me. it's really hard to override that instinct and just pitch it in and ride it out, but more often than not that will save your ass.

**Stoneman** · 06-23-04, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by MissTwisties
uhh...I always grab BOTH front and rear brakes when making a stop...even when slowing down.

Your missing what happened...

**elaineo** · 06-23-04, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by MissTwisties
uhh...I always grab BOTH front and rear brakes when making a stop...even when slowing down.

Squeeze, don't grab

**Honclfibr** · 06-23-04, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by elaineo
Squeeze, don't grab

**MissTwisties** · 06-23-04, 01:45 PM

I don't get it...."what" am I missing? You guys are talking about front/rear brakes...I'm just saying I always grab both at same time either when braking or slowing down...that's what I learned in MSF.

**Kham** · 06-23-04, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by elaineo
Squeeze, don't grab

you like to be squeeze dont ya?

**Rye** · 06-23-04, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by elaineo
Squeeze, don't grab

That's what she said.....LOL

**slingblade** · 06-23-04, 08:57 PM

That was one heck of a corner! I do think it'd have been close if you'd have commited to the corner and just leaned further.

Had you been in a group ride, I think you'd have made it for sure because you would have had the confidence. You'd have been in over your head for sure, but you'd have just leaned over. Maybe you'd have been going 10mph slower too, because the group knew the turn.

In your defence as to just not seeing the sign... Thats the only mention of that turn, and its pretty far away from it. You miss that, and another 50 yards down the road is the turn, with no warning.

Dont panic!

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