HD Introducing water cooled bikes on Labor Day

[SVRACER01]

I could be wrong about this but this is what I've learned from tv. HD riders trailer their bikes long distances. they don't ride them. long distance seems to be owned by real touring bikes like the Goldwing, FJR and Concourse and other bikes like the GSA and VFR and I've also heard even the Busa is a great long distance bike.

many do. on the other hand ive got plenty of customers with bike made in last 5 years with 50, 60, 80 even 100k on them. of all the bikes you listed, only the goldwing is a "touring bike". the FJR, concourse, and VFR are all sport tourers with a little more emphasis on "sport"
i rent HDs when i plan on doing 300+ miles in a day with the wife. she doesnt want to spend that kind of time in the saddle of her GSXR, especially on the highway. nor do i on a tard.

[scottieducati]

Zero issues with 3-400+ mile days on my ST2, or ZRX... both of which are late '90's, both water cooled and at least one sounds better than any HD ever made.

To each his / her own, I'd much... much rather take off for a cross-country trip on a Kawi C-14 or the like, but that's personal preference. HD is doing what they can / need to keep their retirees happy. No shame in that.

[CBR929RE]

many do. on the other hand ive got plenty of customers with bike made in last 5 years with 50, 60, 80 even 100k on them. of all the bikes you listed, only the goldwing is a "touring bike". the FJR, concourse, and VFR are all sport tourers with a little more emphasis on "sport"
i rent HDs when i plan on doing 300+ miles in a day with the wife. she doesnt want to spend that kind of time in the saddle of her GSXR, especially on the highway. nor do i on a tard.

well lets face it the Goldwing really has no competition because its just so good at what it does.
and like I said I could be wrong about the mileage HD guys do. but 100k miles is a lot of trips to the bar

long rides on a sportbike suck. most I ever did in a day was around 225 I think

[SVRACER01]

Zero issues with 3-400+ mile days on my ST2, or ZRX... both of which are late '90's, both water cooled and at least one sounds better than any HD ever made.

To each his / her own, I'd much... much rather take off for a cross-country trip on a Kawi C-14 or the like, but that's personal preference. HD is doing what they can / need to keep their retirees happy. No shame in that.

and that basically it. the demographic that HD is shooting for is higher than someone your/our age. 35 is probably at the lower end of that scale. not everyone wants a 150hp sport tourer that they could drag knee on if they wanted to.
personally if you lined up your ST2, the ZRX and a FHTK and said pick one for a long trip, it would be hard not pick the HD. the ST2 would be tempting and i may be more likely to take it on a trip that involved little highway miles (ex: backroads) no way on the ZRX though.

(**not aimed at anyone in particular**)not liking HDs doesnt surprise me, especially on this forum. in fact its the norm. not every bike is going to appeal to everyone. not liking a certain bike is fine and that your right. its your opinion and youre entitled to it. but to say that they suck and bash something just because it doesnt appeal to you is just ignorant. i like them for what they are. i dont like all of them, i really only like the touring bikes. sportsters, softails, and dynas have no place in my life. if you dont own one or never have or never spent any real time with one then your opinion doesnt mean a whole lot to me /rant over/

interesting fact i came across: HD sold almost 250,000 bikes in 2012. Jap bikes, when you add up the big 4, sold only 20,000 more bikes than HD....worldwide.

[scottieducati]

HD sales may have sucked in the US for a time, but in Europe and other areas they caught on in recent years. The demographics are largely the same though with the older crowd.

I don't hate HD's per se, I'd love to swing a leg over a sportster or even one of the touring bikes. But what I do hate is most (from my experience) HD owners, who put loud pipes on so their whopping 97 HP sounds like a million. These ass hats, riding their comfy bikes to the bars w/ open pipes at all times of day are largely responsible for all those noise ordinances we so love to rally against.

I equally hate squids popping stand up wheelies and driving liter bikes like idiots on the roads.... there's just a LOT more HD riders out there that have something to prove and tend to be into the bar scene.

I have pipes on my ST2 and yeah, it's loud... but I can also ride down small streets withOUT making such a ruckus.

The one bit about HD's, they don't have a throttle per se, it's a volume meter... for all those guys who NEED you to know just how bad ass they are riding a loud bike w/ no helmet.

[SVRACER01]

you dont have to dress like a gay pirate to ride a HD.
and youre right. there are just as many squids out there being a nuisance as there are HD pirates.
an older sportster isnt bad. they still had ground clearance back then. now you drag the pipes changing lanes on the highway.

[nhbubba]

i like them for what they are. i dont like all of them, i really only like the touring bikes. sportsters, softails, and dynas have no place in my life. if you dont own one or never have or never spent any real time with one then your opinion doesnt mean a whole lot to me /rant over/

I like them too. I don't have enough time on the sportsters to have a real opinion, but I really want to like them. I've decided I HAVE to hit a demo truck up next time they are in the area. And I really, really do understand the appeal of the big tourers. I agree with you re: the middle of the linup. The softails and dynas do little for me, even on paper. I won't even give them the benefit of a test ride as, well, just no.

But I DO like them. You know how you can tell? I'm participating in this thread. If I didn't, I would have made some baseless, smart ass, 'hater' remark and moved on.

you dont have to dress like a gay pirate to ride a HD.
and youre right. there are just as many squids out there being a nuisance as there are HD pirates.
an older sportster isnt bad. they still had ground clearance back then. now you drag the pipes changing lanes on the highway.

Hear hear! And the loud pipes don't need to be accessory number one.

And in case anyone was curious, the new Yamaha Bolt has that same peg scraping problem. I scraped pegs turning onto a side street at like 10 MPH. I felt like I needed to hang off to safely corner that dumbass thing at barely 5 over. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Garandman]

you dont have to dress like a gay pirate to ride a HD.
and youre right. there are just as many squids out there being a nuisance as there are HD pirates.
an older sportster isnt bad. they still had ground clearance back then. now you drag the pipes changing lanes on the highway.

My Roadster came with 13.5" shocks. The BPO installed 10" shocks. And this was one the Roadster, which had dual front disks and a tach in addition to a full-height suspension. I did quite a bit of work to it, including new shocks, front springs, fork brace, Metzler tires, full-height seat etc to try and make it more of a road bike than cruiser, and was only partially successful.


HD parts departments are very good. When the oil cover flew off my Roadster (this is a common problem) they recommended the 2007+ version, which had better clips. HD also sells Deka batteries which are quite good. And the bigger dealers generally have a pretty complete stock of service manuals.

[Imbeek]

Geez, after reading some of the comments in this thread, its hard for me to believe/remember that I've ridden tens of thousands of miles on my Harley touring bike (in between motocross, woods riding, sport riding, and trackdays on my other bikes) without wearing any gay pirate gear, bar hopping, dating ignorant women, or ever putting it on a trailer. Friends of mine who own Harleys could say the same.

...We must all be doing it wrong.

[SVRACER01]

Wirelessly posted (GS3)

You're in the minority then LOL. Hang out at a dealer for a day. It will be a laugh. Leather vests, patches, skulldanas, fingerless gloves. I entertain myself daily.
They all wear heavy duty boots. When you ask them why they tell you its because they want to protect themselves. Then they get on their bike with no helmet, sleeveless shirt and sometimes shorts. But is OK because their feet will be safe.

[Imbeek]

Wirelessly posted (GS3)

You're in the minority then LOL. Hang out at a dealer for a day. It will be a laugh. Leather vests, patches, skulldanas, fingerless gloves. I entertain myself daily.
They all wear heavy duty boots. When you ask them why they tell you its because they want to protect themselves. Then they get on their bike with no helmet, sleeveless shirt and sometimes shorts. But is OK because their feet will be safe.

True for sure. I don't fit in, admittedly, but still like the bike.

Kinda reminds me of this time, hanging out in a hammock as a solo traveler on vacation to Costa Rica one time back in 2003. I got to speaking with a guy who was very successful in his career but on a solo surf trip like me; we were talking about how many expats were down there living the life every day, and how many slackers were at home, too. His quote: "it's getting to the point now where having a job IS being an anti-conformist"

Similarly with Harleys; I let my freak flag fly by wearing leathers and a full face helmet

[PhilB]

You have to ease HD owners into new technology. Take the vrod for example. Too much too fast. Tech overload for them.
This is a move in the right direction for the company. You guys all keep focusing on how much power they make. They don't need to make 187 HP to do what they were designed to do.
Realistically the HD touring bikes don't have a lot of competition. The gold wing and the BMW k1200. Both are very techy bikes that are more computer than motorcycle.
The HDs aren't for everyone, but if big miles is what you want to do and do it comfortably the HD is tough to beat.
Be honest, would you ride your sportbike to Niagara falls and back. Hell no. Why? Because it would suck to plod along the freeway for 12 hours. Get on a HD and set the cruise and go 80 while listening to your I pod all while carrying a weeks worth of clothes for you and you significant other.

I'm not polluted. I'm realistic. I'm sure ill own a HD one day because the wife and I have found that we enjoy taking motorcycle vacations. Can't do that with a gsxr and a motard in the stable. I also realize that my tardy is stupid fun and is just about perfect for what I use it for on a regular basis. I will most likely always have a fun fast toy. No bike can be designed to do everything perfect or even well. They are all designed with one task in mind. Sportbikes, dual sports, adventure, touring, standards...they all had a purpose in mind when built. Sure they may overlap a little with another style of riding. Like I can ride my motard on dirt roads but a dual sport would be better. And I could ride a dual sport on some trails but a dirt bike would be better etc etc.

BMW is up to the K1600 (6-cyl) now. And Hell Yes on taking my Monster anywhere; I've been to 34 states on it so far. But otherwise I pretty much agree. A couple years back, my wife and I rented a Road King to explore Maui on, and it was perfect for that.

I could be wrong about this but this is what I've learned from tv. HD riders trailer their bikes long distances. they don't ride them. long distance seems to be owned by real touring bikes like the Goldwing, FJR and Concourse and other bikes like the GSA and VFR and I've also heard even the Busa is a great long distance bike.

Many people do that, especially those who bought them *because of* (rather than in spite of) the "lifestyle" stuff.

But there are a LOT of Harleys that do get ridden, often and/or far. As a consultant for 14 years, I've seen a lot of company parking lots. And they are almost always mostly Harleys, with a few Hondas, and one or two of something else (plus my Duc, of course).

PhilB

[Garandman]

well lets face it the Goldwing really has no competition because its just so good at what it does.
and like I said I could be wrong about the mileage HD guys do. but 100k miles is a lot of trips to the bar

long rides on a sportbike suck. most I ever did in a day was around 225 I think

A couple seasons ago I did a little experiment. I took the first ten bikes of several makes/types and divided their mileage by model year. This netted miles/season.

The supposition was that a brand like BMW would have the highest mileage per season and HD the lowest. In actual fact, the range was surprisingly small and at least on Boston CL, most bikes of all types were ridden about 2,200 miles per season.

Supposedly HD had internal docs saying that the average miles per year was somewhere between 700 and 1,100 miles. But the U.S. HD market is huge and you can see all of the above is true: there are bikes barely ridden, bikes logging 30,000 a year, and everything in between.

The 2005 Roadster I bought had 1,400 miles, confirming the stereotype. But in 2007 I bought a 2005 V-Strom with 93 miles on it: there are all kinds of cream puffs around.

[csmutty]

I could be wrong about this but this is what I've learned from tv. HD riders trailer their bikes long distances. they don't ride them. long distance seems to be owned by real touring bikes like the Goldwing, FJR and Concourse and other bikes like the GSA and VFR and I've also heard even the Busa is a great long distance bike.

I beg to differ. Hang out with some real riders and you'll quickly see why this comment makes you look like an idiot

[Chippertheripper]

I beg to differ. Hang out with some real riders and you'll quickly see why this comment makes you look like an idiot

You think the majority of the people on occ or the sturgis show ride their bikes there?
Because that's what he's talking about...
Didn't Jane have a discussion going about what's a real rider anyways? Tell me, tell me, wont you please?

[Nny]

I really do try not to get involved in these conversations but whatever, here it goes.
I have a Harley Street Bob in addition to my Yamaha R6. I have had a Ninja 650, Ninja 250, Goldwing and a Nightster before the two I have now. I love the bikes I have right now and the bikes I have had but am no way loyal to any of the brands. To me, a motorcycle is a motorcycle and as long as it fulfills the needs you have for the type of riding you intend to do - that is all that matters.

There were other brands I was looking at while I was looking for a cruiser. The Street Bob had all that I wanted at the best overall price (I am talking out the door and aftermarket stuff to make it do what I need). I paid a bit over 12k out the door and later on added highway pegs and saddlebags as the only aftermarket stuff since that is all it needed (IMHO).
I have put over 40k miles on the Street Bob alone since November 2008 and probably put about 30k+ on the sport bikes I have had.

So… now since that is out of the way, with the way this conversation is going I want to add my 2 cents.
For my Harley:
Basic maintenance is done every 5k miles.
I have never had to lube, clean or adjust the belt.
There is one screw to get to and visually see the air filter.
I do not need to remove any “in the way parts” to get to any of the bolts, plugs or filter for basic maintenance.
I have never and will never be required to do a valve adjustment.
Even though it is typically referred to as “stealerships”, all hourly labor is cheaper at Harley than any place I needed to go for any of the sports bikes I have or had.
I have never had anything leak on me.
The heat coming from my Harley has never been more intense than any other bike I have owned or been on for that matter (which is a lot).
Just because Harleys are typically ridden slow does not mean they aren’t capable of riding in a way that would get you pulled over on a twisty road. Honestly, any faster than this you are asking for more trouble than what an officer would give you. It’s why we go to the track, right?
The only bike that left me stranded on the side of the road was my Ninja 250.
While I did not buy a cruiser for handling like a sport bike, I can still take a 20MPH posted at 45MPH without dragging hard parts (though at 50MPH, I might depending on the 20MPH turn). As far as flick ability for a heavy bike; I have no problem taking a tight left to an immediate tight right hand turn. There is no physical struggle with the extra weight. It is counter steering and I would like to say all cruisers/tourers do well with where they put the center of gravitiy.

I guess what it boils down to and why I am getting involved in this conversation is that I just don’t see the point of looking at a cruiser with sport bike goggles. There are other reasons why to get a bike than what kind of numbers it can produce whether it is from the engine or at the track.
My opinion of the “project rushmore”? It is one more maintenance item. I am happy with the power and reliability of my Street Bob.

Also, on my Street Bob, I recently did a 1k mile trip in a day with only stopping for gas. I can’t imagine doing that same trip in the same amount of time on my R6, comfortably.

One more thing, I know how all this may sound while reading it in plain text. Try to look at what I am saying as constructive criticism to the conversation more than anything else.

Except for this part... this part may stir up some s***. I don’t wear the “pirate outfit” but for those that do in my area, they are still wearing more gear than most sport bike riders. I feel like when I hop on my R6 and wear my typical gear that I am breaking the mold for this area.

[nhbubba]

I used to look down on Harleys pretty hard as being overpriced. In the last few years I've started to realize that they really aren't that much more expensive than comparable options. In some cases they are cheaper. A base 883 Sportster is LESS than a Honda Shadow 750! The Road King is a bit more than much of the competition, but then it is better equipped too. And you can't argue that it is the standard for that type of motorcycle.

It is absurd to judge a brand based on some of their customers.

[csmutty]

You think the majority of the people on occ or the sturgis show ride their bikes there?
Because that's what he's talking about...
Didn't Jane have a discussion going about what's a real rider anyways? Tell me, tell me, wont you please?

I mean people who ride for the ride and don't ride to pose.

[SVRACER01]

A couple seasons ago I did a little experiment. I took the first ten bikes of several makes/types and divided their mileage by model year. This netted miles/season.

The supposition was that a brand like BMW would have the highest mileage per season and HD the lowest. In actual fact, the range was surprisingly small and at least on Boston CL, most bikes of all types were ridden about 2,200 miles per season.

Supposedly HD had internal docs saying that the average miles per year was somewhere between 700 and 1,100 miles. But the U.S. HD market is huge and you can see all of the above is true: there are bikes barely ridden, bikes logging 30,000 a year, and everything in between.

The 2005 Roadster I bought had 1,400 miles, confirming the stereotype. But in 2007 I bought a 2005 V-Strom with 93 miles on it: there are all kinds of cream puffs around.

most people in this area of the states do about 2500 a year. most of my customers are in the 5k range.

[SRTie4k]

Their products aren't actually priced that bad. A well outfitted Shadow 750 is actually MORE than the base Sportster 883 model. And the GW out prices most of their plain jane tourers. (Not including the CVO branded stuff.)

As for yesterday's tech. I understand that too. It used to be motorcycles were about simplicity. It doesn't have to spin to 14k RPM, have an integrated GPS, or a carbon fiber frame to be fun.

That said, this system adds complexity to their product and, IMO, detracts from the desirability.

Like Stromper, I blame the EPA, not HD.

I used to look down on Harleys pretty hard as being overpriced. In the last few years I've started to realize that they really aren't that much more expensive than comparable options. In some cases they are cheaper. A base 883 Sportster is LESS than a Honda Shadow 750! The Road King is a bit more than much of the competition, but then it is better equipped too. And you can't argue that it is the standard for that type of motorcycle.

It is absurd to judge a brand based on some of their customers.

Did this thread just complete a gordian knot?

[CBR929RE]

I beg to differ. Hang out with some real riders and you'll quickly see why this comment makes you look like an idiot

hey dummy read my post again. I started off by saying I could be wrong.

[nhbubba]

Did this thread just complete a gordian knot?

I have no idea what a gordian knot is. But talk to me in person sometime. I repeat myself even more.

[SVRACER01]

so i finally got a chance to ride one of the new '14s. FLHXS or Street glide special. air cooled 103, touch screen radio, and coil over adjustable rear shocks. it was a 10 mile ride but i learned a lot.
--the new fairing simply works. i was wearing my dual sport helmet and had nearly zero beffeting or wind noise, even with the short windshield. close the vent and you can hear the wind a little more but with it open its very quiet. from what i hear its even better on the bikes with taller windshields
--radio. awesome. some may not care about this feature but the sound quality was very good. i was able to sync my phone via bluetooth and listen to my library and even change songs with the handlebar controls very easily
--handling its far better. the new fork angle makes the bike feel 200lbs lighter. it turns easy and very light in the bars
--engine. in comparison to last years 103, this one really "shits and gets". the new cam and slightly higher compression really make a difference. when i got on it exiting a corner, im fairly certain with a little more skill i could break the rear tire loose and drift it. it stretched the forks out fully in 2nd too.
--brakes. the new linked braking ABS is phenomenal. i tromped on the just the rear brake pretty hard at about 50mph. hard enough that it wouldve locked up the rear or kicked on the ABS of prior years. instead the whole bike just squatted and came to a very fast, controlled stop.

overall, i have to say that im impressed. HD really did a good job with the new touring bikes. ive been meaning to post this up for a couple of weeks now. HD just did a national open house with demo rides on the new 14s. im sorry i didnt get it up before that so some of you couldve gone out and tried them out.
if you get a chance to ride one, do it.

[TheIglu]

--brakes. the new linked braking ABS is phenomenal. i tromped on the just the rear brake pretty hard at about 50mph. hard enough that it wouldve locked up the rear or kicked on the ABS of prior years. instead the whole bike just squatted and came to a very fast, controlled stop.

So are they just going to do away with the front lever finally?

[stoinkythepig]

So are they just going to do away with the front lever finally?

They did something more clever than that, the brakes de-couple below a certain speed so that the rear can be used to stabilize the bike at low speeds without affecting the front brakes at all.

Depending on how sophisticated the system is, that might be scary... For instance, if all you are using is the rear pedal alone; the last x MPH might not have the front brake involved and could mean the difference between stopping and crashing.