MSF Basic Rider Course

[Degsy]

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Lots of students tell me that driving a stick helped enormously. They say that they would have struggled if they had never driven a stick shift car.

[fineout]

I had never driven a stick before and my biggest problem was learning how to use the clutch and shift, so I definately believe that.

[noxin]

I think it helps with the understanding of the friction zone and transitioning between throttle and clutch.

I had never seen a manual car before my class.

[csmutty]

Does anyone think prior experience with a manual transmission helps make the BRC easier? I hear a lot of people who drive automatic cages struggle with the BRC because of the clutch work and shifting, not so much because of bike balance or anything like that. Or is operating the clutch with the hand so utterly different that it barely matters?

My missus has made noises about possibly, maybe wanting to ride someday. I've told her we aren't even thinking about getting her a bike until she takes the BRC, but she can do that as soon as she likes, I'll even pay for it.

But I've also told her I think driving a manual for a week or two and getting back into the swing of using a clutch would help her prep for it. (She can drive a stick when she puts her mind to it, but she DD's and prefers an auto.)

I do think driving a standard helps because of the muscle memory and knowing the proper use of the clutch and how to manipulate it. Even though it utilizes different parts of the body I still think muscle memory helps.

[j4eric]

Driving a standard would definitely not hurt.....teaching somebody what a clutch is and what it's for and when to use it definitely makes for a long day....just concept alone is a plus.

[Father Ribs]

I took the MSF earlier this year in Pittsford VT and never having ridden stick, yeah, shifting was a bit of a problem. I loved the course (told everyone I know it was like a three-day-long amusement park ride), but the bike I was riding was just...rough. Difficult enough to concentrate on doing the exercizes when it seemed the bike would rev all over the place. Once I got my permit (stalled out twice on the stop test..argh!), and spent plenty of road time shifting through the gears, everything just came together.

Two of those days were constant rain, even though it was like, 80. :S

[nhbubba]

So now I'm thinking about this.

Many non-car types (pardon the generalization, but particularly women) I know have like zero interest in learning what the 'friction zone' is or the mechanics behind how a clutch works. I'm a 3rd generation engineer. I grew up around mechanics and 'car guys' who not only loved how this crap worked, but routinely took this stuff apart and played with it. My first (running) car was a manual. Mom & Dad drove nothing but. So it was learn or walk in my family.

Whenever I try to teach someone how to drive manual, I start with a description of what's going on and my version of why it is required. In my mind this makes understanding what you are doing when you push/pull the various levers less of a black box experience.

My missus doesn't seem to agree. Several of our friends seem to be the same way. One friend of hers drives stick and refuses to drive an automatic. Great I say. Except she blows at it. I mean she just drops that clutch on every shift. Riding in the backseat with her driving is awful. I don't think she understands what she is doing with that left pedal. My missus is better, except she rarely gets any practice and it shows.

In the broad strokes, how does MSF teach clutch work to a total noob?

Is it strictly a step by step "do this, then that, then this"? Or is there discussion of the mechanics involved?

In short, am I doing it wrong?

If the missus were to take the MSF, I'm wondering if it might be helpful to set her up on the bike in the driveway and get her familiar with operating a clutch using her hand. Give her a leg up so she can focus more on balance and control and less just on clutch work. Although with our relationship, that might be counterproductive!

[ThisBitch]

So now I'm thinking about this.

Many non-car types (pardon the generalization, but particularly women) I know have like zero interest in learning what the 'friction zone' is or the mechanics behind how a clutch works. I'm a 3rd generation engineer. I grew up around mechanics and 'car guys' who not only loved how this crap worked, but routinely took this stuff apart and played with it. My first (running) car was a manual. Mom & Dad drove nothing but. So it was learn or walk in my family.

Whenever I try to teach someone how to drive manual, I start with a description of what's going on and my version of why it is required. In my mind this makes understanding what you are doing when you push/pull the various levers less of a black box experience.

My missus doesn't seem to agree. Several of our friends seem to be the same way. One friend of hers drives stick and refuses to drive an automatic. Great I say. Except she blows at it. I mean she just drops that clutch on every shift. Riding in the backseat with her driving is awful. I don't think she understands what she is doing with that left pedal. My missus is better, except she rarely gets any practice and it shows.

In the broad strokes, how does MSF teach clutch work to a total noob?

Is it strictly a step by step "do this, then that, then this"? Or is there discussion of the mechanics involved?

In short, am I doing it wrong?

If the missus were to take the MSF, I'm wondering if it might be helpful to set her up on the bike in the driveway and get her familiar with operating a clutch using her hand. Give her a leg up so she can focus more on balance and control and less just on clutch work. Although with our relationship, that might be counterproductive!

I do remember them giving some general mechanical knowledge of how the clutch was working, but since I had been driving a standard since I was 14, I don't think I paid much attention.

My guess is that its not that you're explaining the mechanics that's the problem, its that you, like my husband, are an engineer and are completely incapable of really dumbing something down to a level someone with no experience whatsoever would understand. Your brain doesn't work that way.

My husband and I went to replace a float and guage in our well tank last night and he started explaining to be what we were doing, how it worked, why what the last guy was doing to bleed the pressure wasn't working. The only problem is that he was explaining it to me like I already knew some basics about pumps and plumbing. I do not.

Any time you teach someone how something works, you need to relate it to something they already know. With driving a manual, I find the easiest example that is relatable to most people is a bicycle. I explain that instead of the chain just moving down gears the way it does on a bike, they are stacked in such a way that you basically have to take the chain off and put it back on manually with the clutch. Its a gross misrepresentation of what's actually going on, but people tend to understand it because it relates to something they already know.

[Degsy]

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The video on controls has a great graphic of the engine, 2 green disks for the clutch, an the rear wheel. It shows how the engine turns the rear wheel 'slightly' at the friction zone and fully at total clutch engagement (lever out). That is about as in depth as it should be without losing student interest.

Now, in exercise 2 "using the friction zone" the student should be encouraged to never release the clutch fully, just use the friction zone and slip the clutch all the time using throttle to control speed while onbthe friction zone. Done properly, this exercise can save a world of hurt throughout the rest of the class. If they don't 'get' the friction zone and how it works, they will spend the next 2 days stalling and hopping the bike off the line. There is usually at lease one student in every class who just will absolutely not twist the throttle at all and they are the staller in every exercise. I usually take them aside during a break and have them move off a few times under coaching to never release the clutch fully. Hold in friction zone, now increase revs while looking straight ahead. Sometimes they get it, sometimes not. We use the Buell blast as a training bike and a 500cc single is not easy to move off the line. If you can learn friction zone on the blast, you are good to go on pretty much any bike.

[Father Ribs]

I understood the theoretical concepts from reading and the class, but growing up with a blind dad (who, obviously...never instilled a level of car knowledge), the actual practice of selecting the correct gear and clutch/throttle use was obtuse. What helped me the most to fine-tune my riding was sound: You know how when they blow the timing of a song it just feels "wrong"? I mentally translated that into the sound the motor was making and if the fpm was too fast or slow for the "tune" of optimum rpm for speed...I adjusted it. Worked for me, anyway.

One thing I would really have liked about the course would have been a much larger loop, with the opportunity to really work up and down through the gears, including downshifting to a stop. We were usually so busy doing one thing or another or waiting in queue that something so basic didn't have much time. The size of the course also means we never got out of 2nd...not that I can remember anyway.

Still, I fervently recommend to everyone to try the course, even if they never ride.

[csmutty]

I understood the theoretical concepts from reading and the class, but growing up with a blind dad (who, obviously...never instilled a level of car knowledge), the actual practice of selecting the correct gear and clutch/throttle use was obtuse. What helped me the most to fine-tune my riding was sound: You know how when they blow the timing of a song it just feels "wrong"? I mentally translated that into the sound the motor was making and if the fpm was too fast or slow for the "tune" of optimum rpm for speed...I adjusted it. Worked for me, anyway.

One thing I would really have liked about the course would have been a much larger loop, with the opportunity to really work up and down through the gears, including downshifting to a stop. We were usually so busy doing one thing or another or waiting in queue that something so basic didn't have much time. The size of the course also means we never got out of 2nd...not that I can remember anyway.

Still, I fervently recommend to everyone to try the course, even if they never ride.

Yes this is a very common suggestion. It is very hard to actually find a parking lot big enough for a full size range. Most ranges are modified which means that they are smaller than ideal, and therefore the exercises have been shrunk. In eastern CT we have been looking for somewhere that could house a full size range or even a modified range for years. We haven't found a place yet even with the myriad of instructors that live all over the state. So again it is a resource problem. Most parking lots also have islands which prohibit the program from being able to run there.