msf class sizes(sitting her watching one)

["Dangerous" Dan K]

So where the hell do we learn to trail brake? I've been thinking about backing the EX into 3 lately, just to see what all the fuss is about. Seems like a good spot since there is a "soft barrier" right there to stop me.

[Doc]

Trail braking and backing it in are two seperate things. Grasshopper...

(Not that I am a master of either, hell I don't think I qualify as a student)

["Dangerous" Dan K]

me = comedy fail. boo.

I've been trail braking longer then I've been track riding (although I got a lot better at it when I started riding on the track, and I still suck at it comparatively speaking). I don't have the slightest clue how to "back it in", but I've been told that's at least partially because I ride an EX500.

[Ken C]

So where the hell do we learn to trail brake?

In case anyone REALLY wants to learn:
Riding in the Zone Video Clip

[Karaya One]

In case anyone REALLY wants to learn:
Riding in the Zone Video Clip

Ken's gotta pay for that daughter's college education people!!! Step up to the plate!!

[toocrazy2yoo]

[quote=Doc;746532]

I wonder if Jim knows just how many of us are MSF instructors in this thread. /quote]

Had I but known..

[toocrazy2yoo]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8350i/4.6.1.204 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/103)

Apparently Degs is the winner of the lobstah!

Well, he woulda if he'da been at Chris' a couple of weeks ago. I think we had thirty in excess. Spence and bride took em down to the Cape and fed em to High Society the next day. Wretched excess. Ya shoulda been there. They were killing lobsters to put the claws on their pinkies to do the Vampire thing. The women were putting lobster claws on their pinkies to mark their men's backs that night..the whole rake-effect thing..

Completely, utterly outta control. But I did figure out I can't steer a ping-pong ball into a beer cup..

Is there a BPPBTC out there?

[toocrazy2yoo]

In case anyone REALLY wants to learn:
Riding in the Zone Video Clip

Get the F outta here...YOU'RE the Ken in the Gino follows Ken Vid?

If so, I think I'll grab a cuppa why don't I go shut the fuck up and get outta here?

[WordTooYoMamma]

Wirelessly posted (Tilt: HTC-8900/1.2 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) UP.Link/6.3.1.20.06.3.1.20.0)

lol ^

[Ken C]

Get the F outta here...YOU'RE the Ken in the Gino follows Ken Vid?

If so, I think I'll grab a cuppa why don't I go shut the fuck up and get outta here?

No, no. I enjoy the controversy.

[kb1]

No, no. I enjoy the controversy.

Because he knows he's right, so he can sit back and laugh while people look like fools!



Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies.

[Ken C]

Nah. I appreciate that everyone has an opinion. I used to be pretty strong-headed about what I thought about the MSF, training methods etc. But, now I sit back and listen and contribute when it might be of real benefit. Otherwise...

[toocrazy2yoo]

Because he knows he's right, so he can sit back and laugh while people look like fools! Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies.

Fools-schmools, KB.. Neither Ken, nor the Doc, nor Deggs deny that the rear brake is more relevant on a cruiser, or on a tourer or any bike where you're carrying a passenger and have more weight over the rear. And less relevant on short-wheelbase sportbikes of the type that most Newbs are gonna go out and buy. They also don't deny the rear brake can and is used in an injudicial fashion by newbs to the sport. Their deal and problem is, that for a BRC, there isn't the time to teach the finer points, that teaching them (for now) that using the rear brake everytime is the best option overall. That's the part that took awhile to get through my thick skull.

So, why not have an extra half-day of classroom time added to the BRC to explain a few of these things? And why NOT explain the why's and how's of your contention, "Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies." Good advice. The best. But there's not much time to explain the why's in a BRC. But if you explain the how and why the stability gained by acclerating through turns is so important and the newbs might get a sense of this stuff going into the world instead of the hit-or-miss learning process of actual painful street-level experience. Another half-day in the classroom might be worthwhile.

Hey, if I'm a fool for wondering about and questioning these things, I'll be the fool and gadfly every time. Hey, my questions weren't greeted in a particularly respectful manner in the beginning of this thang, and I replied back in-kind. But it's all good now. Maybe DMV oughtn't drag experienced riders through these BRC courses. Hell, I'd rather they'd said, "Experienced? Rode for 28 years but let the "M" lapse? Need a new Class "M"? Here's a Learner's Permit, you bring your bike and take the ARC/ERC instead, THEN we'll give you your "M" back". I'd bet the ARC/ERC teaches some of the finer points, no? I'da been happier to pay $1000 for the advanced course rather than spend $349 for the BRC if THAT was the option.

Food for thought is all. Dunno why looking at a different way has to make the inquisitive gadfly a fool for the crime of questioning the status quo. Once things calmed down a little, even the professors didn't mind so much. We're all arrogant and audacious (look it up, KB) SOB's which can lead to friction here and there. But it's good now. Besides, if we weren't the arrogant, audacious types, we'd be like the live-safe-and-die-anyway cage drivers. We'd never even throw a leg over these beasts to begin with..

[kb1]

Fools-schmools, KB.. Neither Ken, nor the Doc, nor Deggs deny that the rear brake is more relevant on a cruiser, or on a tourer or any bike where you're carrying a passenger and have more weight over the rear. And less relevant on short-wheelbase sportbikes of the type that most Newbs are gonna go out and buy. They also don't deny the rear brake can and is used in an injudicial fashion by newbs to the sport. Their deal and problem is, that for a BRC, there isn't the time to teach the finer points, that teaching them (for now) that using the rear brake everytime is the best option overall. That's the part that took awhile to get through my thick skull.

So, why not have an extra half-day of classroom time added to the BRC to explain a few of these things? And why NOT explain the why's and how's of your contention, "Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies." Good advice. The best. But there's not much time to explain the why's in a BRC. But if you explain the how and why the stability gained by acclerating through turns is so important and the newbs might get a sense of this stuff going into the world instead of the hit-or-miss learning process of actual painful street-level experience. Another half-day in the classroom might be worthwhile.

Hey, if I'm a fool for wondering about and questioning these things, I'll be the fool and gadfly every time. Hey, my questions weren't greeted in a particularly respectful manner in the beginning of this thang, and I replied back in-kind. But it's all good now. Maybe DMV oughtn't drag experienced riders through these BRC courses. Hell, I'd rather they'd said, "Experienced? Rode for 28 years but let the "M" lapse? Need a new Class "M"? Here's a Learner's Permit, you bring your bike and take the ARC/ERC instead, THEN we'll give you your "M" back". I'd bet the ARC/ERC teaches some of the finer points, no? I'da been happier to pay $1000 for the advanced course rather than spend $349 for the BRC if THAT was the option.

Food for thought is all. Dunno why looking at a different way has to make the inquisitive gadfly a fool for the crime of questioning the status quo. Once things calmed down a little, even the professors didn't mind so much. We're all arrogant and audacious (look it up, KB) SOB's which can lead to friction here and there. But it's good now. Besides, if we weren't the arrogant, audacious types, we'd be like the live-safe-and-die-anyway cage drivers. We'd never even throw a leg over these beasts to begin with..

Oh I wasn't calling you a fool man, I already affirmed that I thought everyone was partially right here and it was a great convo as a result. I was just plugging Ken for some of the best advice I've ever received when it comes to riding a motorcycle.

[oVTo]

Fools-schmools, KB.. Neither Ken, nor the Doc, nor Deggs deny that the rear brake is more relevant on a cruiser, or on a tourer or any bike where you're carrying a passenger and have more weight over the rear. And less relevant on short-wheelbase sportbikes of the type that most Newbs are gonna go out and buy. They also don't deny the rear brake can and is used in an injudicial fashion by newbs to the sport. Their deal and problem is, that for a BRC, there isn't the time to teach the finer points, that teaching them (for now) that using the rear brake everytime is the best option overall. That's the part that took awhile to get through my thick skull.

So, why not have an extra half-day of classroom time added to the BRC to explain a few of these things? And why NOT explain the why's and how's of your contention, "Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies." Good advice. The best. But there's not much time to explain the why's in a BRC. But if you explain the how and why the stability gained by acclerating through turns is so important and the newbs might get a sense of this stuff going into the world instead of the hit-or-miss learning process of actual painful street-level experience. Another half-day in the classroom might be worthwhile.

Hey, if I'm a fool for wondering about and questioning these things, I'll be the fool and gadfly every time. Hey, my questions weren't greeted in a particularly respectful manner in the beginning of this thang, and I replied back in-kind. But it's all good now. Maybe DMV oughtn't drag experienced riders through these BRC courses. Hell, I'd rather they'd said, "Experienced? Rode for 28 years but let the "M" lapse? Need a new Class "M"? Here's a Learner's Permit, you bring your bike and take the ARC/ERC instead, THEN we'll give you your "M" back". I'd bet the ARC/ERC teaches some of the finer points, no? I'da been happier to pay $1000 for the advanced course rather than spend $349 for the BRC if THAT was the option.

Food for thought is all. Dunno why looking at a different way has to make the inquisitive gadfly a fool for the crime of questioning the status quo. Once things calmed down a little, even the professors didn't mind so much. We're all arrogant and audacious (look it up, KB) SOB's which can lead to friction here and there. But it's good now. Besides, if we weren't the arrogant, audacious types, we'd be like the live-safe-and-die-anyway cage drivers. We'd never even throw a leg over these beasts to begin with..

There is a license-approval Experienced Rider Course (ERC). It's cheaper than the Beginner Rider Course and includes 2 hours class and 5 hours riding on your own bike. It is not advanced techniques, but you get to practice basic skills and maybe break some bad habits. It's available in MA but for some reason VA doesn't offer it. So you could have transferred your license to MA and taken the $150 ERC here to get your M - except IIRC you needed the endorsement before moving here.

[njsrikar]

Took me an hour for all the 4 pages....interesting conversation. Now am off to read about trail braking and then backing-it-in

[njsrikar]

Racheting on the gas going through/out of corners = by far the greatest bit of advice I have ever had for track riding and street riding, and surviving in the rain. No lies.