A newb looking for a bike

[PhilB]

so Phil, youre the advocate of starting "smart" but you jumped from a 30HP honda (and admittedly bounced around on other low HP bikes and scooters) for 6 years and then jumped onto an 80hp monster and have been riding that since before i graduated high school.
now i dont know what year/size monster you got the wife but i assume it was probably a 600 which means she went from a 45HP 250 to a 55hp bike. that seems like a more logical jump than yours.

It was a big jump, but I did have quite a bit of experience (about 75,000 miles) by then, and took it really easy for quite a while. The biggest issue wasn't the power increase; it was going from cable-operated drums to triple hydraulic disks.

im fairly certain that ive ended up your ignore list by now which is fine. ill type for the sake of typing. you may think you know more than me, but ive probably forgotten more than you know. he asked for opinion and i gave mine. not once did i say that anyone elses opinion was wrong...including yours. unlike you. if youre gonna get all butt sore over peoples opinion, you arent gonna last long here.

You haven't yet; you're being more reasonable here than you were in the "pet peeves" thread. For you to say, based on exactly zero evidence, that you have probably forgotten more than I know is just silly, though. I said your opinion was wrong because, well, it was. Starting streetbiking on a 600ss is not a good idea. And I'm more concerned about the OP's safety than I am about your feelings.

edit: didnt think i was being a jerk......but then again you dont really know me so....fair enough.
you seem to know Pete. Pete and i are friends (on face book too, so its a REAL friendship) maybe he can shed some light on it

Here, no, you haven't. I got a bad first impression from the "pet peeves" thread; maybe you're usually better than that. I'm willing to give that a chance. In this thread, it was Awesome who decided to be a jerk, making two threads in a row for him.

PhilB

[SVRACER01]

I said your opinion was wrong because, well, it was.

this whole sentence is your opinion. just like starting on a 600 was mine. neither are wrong, and you cant tell someone their opinion is wrong, thats just ridiculous

Starting streetbiking on a 600ss is not a good idea.

this is another opinion, but at least you arent saying im wrong, youre just saying you dont agree and that "its not a good idea"

Here, no, you haven't. I got a bad first impression from the "pet peeves" thread; maybe you're usually better than that. I'm willing to give that a chance. In this thread, it was Awesome who decided to be a jerk, making two threads in a row for him.

PhilB

the pet peeves thread was me entertaining myself. i was half serious, but i was really just humoring myself. i am kind of a dick Awesome is an acquired taste and he and i have been friends for a while. he typically posts what hes thinking and a lot of times just to make himself laugh even if no one else thinks its funny. i love him

[PhilB]

this whole sentence is your opinion. just like starting on a 600 was mine. neither are wrong, and you cant tell someone their opinion is wrong, thats just ridiculous

this is another opinion, but at least you arent saying im wrong, youre just saying you dont agree and that "its not a good idea"

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. It's a measurable fact that starting on a starter bike is safer than starting on a supersport. Therefore, I can safely say that advice to someone to start on a supersport is a bad idea, unless safety is not a criterion for good vs. bad. So sure I suppose you call it all opinion, if you don't think it's bad to crash. But I'm making the bold assumption that the OP has a sense of self-preservation, and is not actively suicidal, and therefore that he wants his first bike not to be his last one.

the pet peeves thread was me entertaining myself. i was half serious, but i was really just humoring myself. i am kind of a dick Awesome is an acquired taste and he and i have been friends for a while. he typically posts what hes thinking and a lot of times just to make himself laugh even if no one else thinks its funny. i love him

Whatever. But it was Awesome that got *his* panties in a bunch and put me on ignore, not the other way around, while you tell me not to take things so seriously.

PhilB

[csmutty]

Phil...he isnt a starter. I went from dirt to street when I was a year younger than him and I started out on a gsxr1100. Have you rode a dirt bike? Their controls are more sensitive than a streetbike in some cases.

[JohnnyV]

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. It's a measurable fact that starting on a starter bike is safer than starting on a supersport. Therefore, I can safely say that advice to someone to start on a supersport is a bad idea, unless safety is not a criterion for good vs. bad.
PhilB

Do you have facts to support this? A beginner bike will provide an easier learning curve to a newer rider, however stating that it is a SAFER bike for a beginner is simply your opinion and certainly not fact.

Is a new driver more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord? Your opinion based on your rational up to this point lead to it begin an inveitable outcome, when in fact there is so much more to these types of scenarios.

What you are failing to take into account with your argument is the person doing the riding. Your blanket statements about the ability of a rider new to the street are only showing the forum as a whole how narrow minded you are.

Believe it or not, the majority (and by majority I'd say as high as 90%) of the members here on this forum are responsible, mature, smart riders who are very aware of safe riding practices. Many race, a number are instructors/rider coaches, and the number of irresponsible squids that frequent these parts are few and far between. This is a tight-knit group, even considering the size and number of members. Coming in and barking out your opinions with such conviction that it has come to the point where it seems only to be for the sake of argument, is not exactly a great way to introduce yourself to a community. The only member I can think of who joined in a similar fashion and was able to make a 180* turn and actually be a huge contributing factor to the group is DucDave, and it took him months of ribbing to redeem himself from his less than favorable welcome.

If you're truly interested in being a member, enjoying spending time riding and talking shop with fellow members who share a love for bikes and riding, cut the shit and try to get along with those who have been around for years.

If you're just looking to stir shit up and argue, you certainly will not be the first, nor the last who can simply get fucked.

[nhbubba]

'Busa or bust. Ride in shorts and flip-flops.

[backinthesaddle]

A relative's neighbor scored an '85 500 Interceptor for $600. Really clean bike, maybe one small tank dent. Some of them had serious engine issues, but when he feels like moving on to something bigger or newer I think I'd offer him $600 for it if nothing more than nostalgia and working at a dealer back in the 80's that sold them.

[SVRACER01]

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. It's a measurable fact that starting on a starter bike is safer than starting on a supersport. Therefore, I can safely say that advice to someone to start on a supersport is a bad idea, unless safety is not a criterion for good vs. bad. So sure I suppose you call it all opinion, if you don't think it's bad to crash. But I'm making the bold assumption that the OP has a sense of self-preservation, and is not actively suicidal, and therefore that he wants his first bike not to be his last one.

PhilB

the only fact i stated was that your opinion was that my opinion was wrong....which is impossible. your opinion is not fact...that IS a fact

[Laxxin93]

How much would it cost to throw a sumo tire on a '01 ktm 520 exc, I found on cl, the owner has a complete service history, and a clean title for 2k so I figure if those tire kits cost a fair bit I could hold off on one for a while. Thanks for all the pointers and what not, if you guys have any suggestions as to what to buy in terms of boots, jacket, gloves, or a helmet(if I'm correct that's personal preference right?) Thanks for all the help guys!

[SVRACER01]

sumo kit can be up to $2k. an exc isnt really a good street engine. a KTM LC4 motor would be great though. they come in many flavors, like 620/640/690/or dukes.


BTW, cant you see im having a discussion with phil? dont interrupt the grown ups when they are talking

[Father Ribs]

Go to a dealership and try stuff on. If it's uncomfortable and you won't wear it, it's not going to protect you.

[PhilB]

Phil...he isnt a starter. I went from dirt to street when I was a year younger than him and I started out on a gsxr1100. Have you rode a dirt bike? Their controls are more sensitive than a streetbike in some cases.

Streetbiking is quite different from dirtbiking. Some of the skills cross over, so he isn't a raw beginner, but he is still a beginner on the street.

Do you have facts to support this? A beginner bike will provide an easier learning curve to a newer rider, however stating that it is a SAFER bike for a beginner is simply your opinion and certainly not fact.

Is a new driver more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord? Your opinion based on your rational up to this point lead to it begin an inveitable outcome, when in fact there is so much more to these types of scenarios.

What you are failing to take into account with your argument is the person doing the riding. Your blanket statements about the ability of a rider new to the street are only showing the forum as a whole how narrow minded you are.

Believe it or not, the majority (and by majority I'd say as high as 90%) of the members here on this forum are responsible, mature, smart riders who are very aware of safe riding practices. Many race, a number are instructors/rider coaches, and the number of irresponsible squids that frequent these parts are few and far between. This is a tight-knit group, even considering the size and number of members. Coming in and barking out your opinions with such conviction that it has come to the point where it seems only to be for the sake of argument, is not exactly a great way to introduce yourself to a community. The only member I can think of who joined in a similar fashion and was able to make a 180* turn and actually be a huge contributing factor to the group is DucDave, and it took him months of ribbing to redeem himself from his less than favorable welcome.

If you're truly interested in being a member, enjoying spending time riding and talking shop with fellow members who share a love for bikes and riding, cut the shit and try to get along with those who have been around for years.

If you're just looking to stir shit up and argue, you certainly will not be the first, nor the last who can simply get fucked.

An easier learning curve = less danger. Yes a new driver WOULD be more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord. That's so obvious it's ridiculous to argue otherwise. None of it is inevitable, but it all does affect the odds. Like wearing a helmet, or not riding drunk, or many other factors that can affect the odds of a problem, it's smart to try to stack the odds in one's favor, rather than the opposite.

The person doing the riding will affect his accident odds, regardless of what he rides, and some riders will be safer than others. Which doesn't change at all the fact that what he rides will ALSO have an effect, and whatever kind of person he is, he will be safer starting on a bike that is less twitchy and more forgiving than a 600SS.

I haven't dissed the general membership of this forum, or their skills, or intent, etc, at all. I don't know where you got that from. I'm not just trying to stir shit up and argue, either. I'm trying to make a sane recommendation to a new street rider, for his own safety. I completely fail to see the motivation for people recommending a less safe plan for starting. Why does anyone do that?

PhilB

[butcher bergs]

the only fact i stated was that your opinion was that my opinion was wrong....which is impossible. your opinion is not fact...that IS a fact

[csmutty]

Streetbiking is quite different from dirtbiking. Some of the skills cross over, so he isn't a raw beginner, but he is still a beginner on the street.

Ok so what skills are needed to make a supersport bike less dangerous?

I would say...

-Throttle Control
-Smooth Braking
-Looking Where You Want To Go
-Good Clutch Control (Friction Zone)
-And Learning Press To Initiate Lean

Hmm...seems all of those skills are present while dirt biking except pressing to initiate lean. Which is also the easiest skill to learn (IMO).

[csmutty]

And Phil...I am selling my Ninja 250. Thought you might be interested. It is much less dangerous than your Monster. You know...just in case.

[mzdagrl]

New guy, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Remember, opinions are like assholes - everyone has one. Weed through the info and make your own decision. I started on an EX250 and hated it. Made the jump to my '05 SV650s after 3 months and 5K (mostly commuting) miles. I don't regret that move at all, and think I would have been just as fine starting on the SV.

Now, on to gear: Things to look for would be armor in your jacket, gauntlet-style gloves with knuckle protection, boots that cover your ankle (I rode for years in hiking boots before getting A* race boots), and a helmet that fits, gives you chipmunk cheeks and is comfortable. I recommend going to a local shop with a good reputation and getting properly fitted for ALL of your gear before shopping around for price. A used jacket, used boots, and even used gloves (though those aren't too expensive typically) will save you some money so you can get a really good helmet (Please don't buy your first helmet used). Plan on spending half your gear budget on a helmet if you don't order a closeout or something (this move can save you hundreds). Name brands are used more frequently on this forum for good reason - they do rate higher in crash tests - so unlike some other things in life, with a helmet you do often get what you pay for.

[JohnnyV]

Wirelessly posted (Blackberry Tour: Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9930; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.163 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

Phil...he isnt a starter. I went from dirt to street when I was a year younger than him and I started out on a gsxr1100. Have you rode a dirt bike? Their controls are more sensitive than a streetbike in some cases.

Streetbiking is quite different from dirtbiking. Some of the skills cross over, so he isn't a raw beginner, but he is still a beginner on the street.

Do you have facts to support this? A beginner bike will provide an easier learning curve to a newer rider, however stating that it is a SAFER bike for a beginner is simply your opinion and certainly not fact.

Is a new driver more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord? Your opinion based on your rational up to this point lead to it begin an inveitable outcome, when in fact there is so much more to these types of scenarios.

What you are failing to take into account with your argument is the person doing the riding. Your blanket statements about the ability of a rider new to the street are only showing the forum as a whole how narrow minded you are.

Believe it or not, the majority (and by majority I'd say as high as 90%) of the members here on this forum are responsible, mature, smart riders who are very aware of safe riding practices. Many race, a number are instructors/rider coaches, and the number of irresponsible squids that frequent these parts are few and far between. This is a tight-knit group, even considering the size and number of members. Coming in and barking out your opinions with such conviction that it has come to the point where it seems only to be for the sake of argument, is not exactly a great way to introduce yourself to a community. The only member I can think of who joined in a similar fashion and was able to make a 180* turn and actually be a huge contributing factor to the group is DucDave, and it took him months of ribbing to redeem himself from his less than favorable welcome.

If you're truly interested in being a member, enjoying spending time riding and talking shop with fellow members who share a love for bikes and riding, cut the shit and try to get along with those who have been around for years.

If you're just looking to stir shit up and argue, you certainly will not be the first, nor the last who can simply get fucked.

An easier learning curve = less danger. Yes a new driver WOULD be more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord. That's so obvious it's ridiculous to argue otherwise. None of it is inevitable, but it all does affect the odds. Like wearing a helmet, or not riding drunk, or many other factors that can affect the odds of a problem, it's smart to try to stack the odds in one's favor, rather than the opposite.

The person doing the riding will affect his accident odds, regardless of what he rides, and some riders will be safer than others. Which doesn't change at all the fact that what he rides will ALSO have an effect, and whatever kind of person he is, he will be safer starting on a bike that is less twitchy and more forgiving than a 600SS.

I haven't dissed the general membership of this forum, or their skills, or intent, etc, at all. I don't know where you got that from. I'm not just trying to stir shit up and argue, either. I'm trying to make a sane recommendation to a new street rider, for his own safety. I completely fail to see the motivation for people recommending a less safe plan for starting. Why does anyone do that?

PhilB

Again, it is YOUR OPINION that it is a less safe option for him to start on a 250 or 500 as opposed to an older 600, NOT FACT. With a good head on his shoulders, discipline and respect for the power, as well as reasonable throttle control (which he possesses from his dirt experience) a 600 will be just as safe.

It is your blatant refusal to listen to the testimony of fellow experienced riders that is going over like a lead balloon. If he came here and said "hey I know nothing about bikes, but I'm 18 and want to go fast as fuck and be a rockstar" then yes your statement would carry more value. However not all situations are the same, which you don't seem to realize.

[imstuner]

Ok so what skills are needed to make a supersport bike less dangerous?

I would say...

-Throttle Control
-Smooth Braking
-Looking Where You Want To Go
-Good Clutch Control (Friction Zone)
-And Learning Press To Initiate Lean

Hmm...seems all of those skills are present while dirt biking except pressing to initiate lean. Which is also the easiest skill to learn (IMO).

Agree on everything he said.

I find leaning on a supersport much easier. But then again what do I know I’m still a newb.

[PhilB]

Ok so what skills are needed to make a supersport bike less dangerous?

I would say...

-Throttle Control
-Smooth Braking
-Looking Where You Want To Go
-Good Clutch Control (Friction Zone)
-And Learning Press To Initiate Lean

Hmm...seems all of those skills are present while dirt biking except pressing to initiate lean. Which is also the easiest skill to learn (IMO).

What skills are needed to make *street riding* less dangerous? A whole lot of awareness, predictive abilities, passing skills, emergency braking -- things that are very different from dirt riding. Those are the things a new street rider should be concentrating on; having a bike that will bite you if you make a mistake while learning all that stuff is a bad idea.

I'm on lots of forums, and it is a very common story for a new street rider (including those with dirt experience) with too much bike to encounter a surprise, react instinctively, and dump it. A great many of those guys were advised to start on a beginner bike, on that very same forum, but decided that they were "special snowflakes" that didn't need the same advice as everyone else. And now they have crunched supersports, or Ducati Monsters, and significant repair bills, and occasionally medical bills to go with it.

And Phil...I am selling my Ninja 250. Thought you might be interested. It is much less dangerous than your Monster. You know...just in case.

Great. Sell it to a beginner. It's a great bike for that.

PhilB

[PhilB]

Again, it is YOUR OPINION that it is a less safe option for him to start on a 250 or 500 as opposed to an older 600, NOT FACT. With a good head on his shoulders, discipline and respect for the power, as well as reasonable throttle control (which he possesses from his dirt experience) a 600 will be just as safe.

It is your blatant refusal to listen to the testimony of fellow experienced riders that is going over like a lead balloon. If he came here and said "hey I know nothing about bikes, but I'm 18 and want to go fast as fuck and be a rockstar" then yes your statement would carry more value. However not all situations are the same, which you don't seem to realize.

Well, no.

Some things are opinions. If you say bananas are tasty, and I say bananas are nasty, then those are opinions. We're both right, for ourselves, and can agree to disagree. OTOH, if I say the sky is blue and you say the sky is green, those are not opinions -- there's an objective reality involved, and one of us will be factually wrong.

If I say that it is safer to start on a 250 than on a 600 supersport, and you say a 600 supersport is just as safe as a 250, those claims are not opinions; they relate to an objective reality. One of us is factually wrong. (And it isn't me.)

The OP does sound pretty mature, and it is likely to be true that him starting on a 600 supersport is less dangerous than your average wanna-be squid starting on a 600 supersport. But it's also still true that him starting on a 600 supersport is more dangerous than him starting on a 250 or 500.

He does get to make his own choice. But I think some good rational advice is a benefit to someone new at anything, so that's what I have been trying to provide. By now, he probably has both sides of this, so my work here is done. Whatever he picks, I hope he is safe.

PhilB

[SVRACER01]

An easier learning curve = less danger. Yes a new driver WOULD be more likely to crash a Ferrari than an Accord. That's so obvious it's ridiculous to argue otherwise.

under this logic every new car driver should start with a 73 VW bug or geo metro.
the kid stated that he occasionally rides his buddies gsxr750 so it sounds to me like a 15 year old 600 would be fine in my opinion
my girlfriend started on a 250. she hated it and immediately started looking for something else. she ended up buying a 2 year old GSXR 750. not everyone is the same.
all the reasons you stated that put people at risk of crashing a SS are things that can just as easily happen on a 250/500

[j4eric]

dont we go thru this whole shmeel everytime a newbie asks for advice? over and over on which bike to start with....same result....everybody gives advice and ends up to be a pissing contest......usually its in the delivery of the message that gets mumbled up....
here is my advice....OP, get a bike in good condition with your 2k, whatever it is....make sure you can get most of it back when you decide to go newer or upgrade.....or figure out that street riding is not for you, i know several people who bought 600's as their first bike but it did not matter because they found out that motorcycle riding was not for them.....plus at 18yrs old.....your pocket will encourge you to a 250cc..

[backinthesaddle]

Started road riding on a ninja 250. It was a fun bike, a blast in the corners, but I started riding dirt bikes at age 10 and did 3 years of mx. After twisting the throttle on 2 stroke 125, 250, and 500 hondas the 250 ninja just seemed to be lacking the wow factor, and after a year and 13,000 miles went for a 600.

That said the ninja's lack of big throttle response did help me to concentrate more on the ever changing surroundings on the road (cars, kids, animals). The years of dirt bike riding definitely helps with overall bike riding being second nature and helps when the road conditions aren't quite what we'd like them to be.

[PhilB]

under this logic every new car driver should start with a 73 VW bug or geo metro.
the kid stated that he occasionally rides his buddies gsxr750 so it sounds to me like a 15 year old 600 would be fine in my opinion
my girlfriend started on a 250. she hated it and immediately started looking for something else. she ended up buying a 2 year old GSXR 750. not everyone is the same.
all the reasons you stated that put people at risk of crashing a SS are things that can just as easily happen on a 250/500

Yes, I think kids should start in small cheap used cars, held together with duct tape and could blow up at any minute. The parent who buys his kid a BMW for his 16th birthday is doing everyone a disservice, including the kid.

And he didn't say that he occasionally rides his buddy's GSXR750. He said he fit on it physically.

And no, all the reasons I stated that put people at risk of crashing a SS are NOT things that can just as easily happen on a 250/500. A 250/500 is FAR more forgiving of mistakes and hamfisted moves, which is exactly the point. Sheesh.

PhilB

[SVRACER01]

dont we go thru this whole shmeel everytime a newbie asks for advice? over and over on which bike to start with....same result....everybody gives advice and ends up to be a pissing contest......usually its in the delivery of the message that gets mumbled up....
here is my advice....OP, get a bike in good condition with your 2k, whatever it is....make sure you can get most of it back when you decide to go newer or upgrade.....or figure out that street riding is not for you, i know several people who bought 600's as their first bike but it did not matter because they found out that motorcycle riding was not for them.....plus at 18yrs old.....your pocket will encourge you to a 250cc..

no...we dont. overall everyones consensus and opinion on the subject are basically the same. everyone states their case and maybe even provides a link to a bike on CL and thats that. i cant recall someone blatantly telling someone else that their opinion is wrong though. i think this is a first for me anyway.