A newb looking for a bike

[PhilB]

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...inja-250r.html

PhilB

[Evadd]

i'd also like to echo the gear comments: it's freakin fantastic that you've set aside $800 for gear. that's almost unheard of for a new rider, especially at your age.

as for the bike, a used Kawi 250 or 500 is a good idea. you can buy it cheap, ride it for a year or so, and then sell it for about the same price you bought it for.

i'm also going to throw out the bike i started on - Yamaha YZF600R. they're a step in terms of performance, but are very stable and aren't so twitchy like the newer 600's. it's heavy for a 600, but it's still manageable and rides well, not to mention very comfortable.

this one is slightly over your price range, but deals like this are out there: http://nh.craigslist.org/mcd/2802408179.html

that's a 97, but the bike didn't change from 97-07 in the states. one with low miles and a good 2nd gear is still a deal.

one last thing - you mentioned your friend's gixxer 750 and something about size not being an issue in terms of comfort- there's very little (if any) size difference for the rider b/n a modern 600 and 1000. the ergonomics between bikes can be very different, but that's based more on the configuration b/n the bars/seat/pegs and not the engine size.

[SVRACER01]

if you can find one, honda made a 599. naked/standard but with plenty of get up and go from the 600cc inline 4 motor.
SVs are great bikes, they can really grow with you and will be a blast when/if you take it to the track.
im fairly certain you can find a decent Honda F2/F3 thats not too beat on and will run great.
the older (mid to late 90s) GSXR 600 (SRAD models) are good find and a Kawasaki ZX6 is also a great bike. the old Yamaha YZF600s are a little bulky but they get fantastic gas mileage. a first generation R6 could probably work as well. all of these bikes can found fairly cheap if you shop smart. check cycle trader.

as for mileage, in new england i would say 2-2500 a year is probably the average but dont over look something with 3-5k a year on it either.

[Stoneman]

Troll alert!

[PhilB]

if you can find one, honda made a 599. naked/standard but with plenty of get up and go from the 600cc inline 4 motor.
SVs are great bikes, they can really grow with you and will be a blast when/if you take it to the track.
im fairly certain you can find a decent Honda F2/F3 thats not too beat on and will run great.
the older (mid to late 90s) GSXR 600 (SRAD models) are good find and a Kawasaki ZX6 is also a great bike. the old Yamaha YZF600s are a little bulky but they get fantastic gas mileage. a first generation R6 could probably work as well. all of these bikes can found fairly cheap if you shop smart. check cycle trader.

as for mileage, in new england i would say 2-2500 a year is probably the average but dont over look something with 3-5k a year on it either.

And none of those are good bikes for a newb.

PhilB

[Awesome]

Phil B, dueche enough to make the ignore list in less than a month. New record.

[SRTie4k]

douche*

[Awesome]

douche*

Your

[TheIglu]

Any naked standard in the 400-750CC range that you can flat foot would be ideal.

[SVRACER01]

And none of those are good bikes for a newb.

PhilB

ok, ill bite. why not?
when i bought my first bike i did lots of research and asked a lot of riders what they thought a good first bike was and the general consensus was a F2/F3 so thats what i got. it was a great first bike. very forgiving and reliable and at 80ish HP its far below the 120HP 600s that are around now. they are also something that you may keep for a few years.

im all for the EX500 route, especially if someone is totally new to the sport but realistically thats not for everyone. it certainly wasnt for me. after 3 600cc bikes i ended up on a 650 for 5 years then onto the SV1K. i feel that if you want a supersport/replica type bike then a mid 90s 600 is a great option. im sure that you (phil) started on an ex250 though....didnt you?

[PhilB]

Phil B, dueche enough to make the ignore list in less than a month. New record.

Yeah, an opinion that 600 supersports are bad choices for new riders is definitely douchey. Especially when it's demonstrably true.

I had a sense from the "pet peeve" thread that you were SVRACER01's "favorite choirboy". You've confirmed it; good for you. I had just about put the both of you on ignore, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for putting me on there, though. If you are mature enough to avoid peeking and responding, that will help cut down on your annoyance rating. Can you ask your "mentor" to do the same?

Thanks,
PhilB

[j4eric]

[PhilB]

ok, ill bite. why not?
when i bought my first bike i did lots of research and asked a lot of riders what they thought a good first bike was and the general consensus was a F2/F3 so thats what i got. it was a great first bike. very forgiving and reliable and at 80ish HP its far below the 120HP 600s that are around now. they are also something that you may keep for a few years.

im all for the EX500 route, especially if someone is totally new to the sport but realistically thats not for everyone. it certainly wasnt for me. after 3 600cc bikes i ended up on a 650 for 5 years then onto the SV1K. i feel that if you want a supersport/replica type bike then a mid 90s 600 is a great option. im sure that you (phil) started on an ex250 though....didnt you?

Because even older 600 supersports are still supersports. They steer sharply, accelerate quickly, brake hard, and are otherwise much too sharply focused to be a good choice for a new rider. I had a 1989 Honda CBR600 as an extra bike for a while; it was a great bike, and nearly indestructible, but not a good beginner bike. Nearly 80 hp, top speed near 140, that's a lot of trouble a new rider could very quickly get into.

The EX500 or GS500 is a good choice if the new rider has some dirtbike experience, or is a larger person. Otherwise, yes, I recommend a 250 of some kind to start with.

I started on a 1976 Honda 360, and rode small Hondas and various scooters for about 6 years before buying my Monster. My wife spent a couple years on a 250 before I bought her a Monster. My daughter then has been riding the 250, and a Vespa, and her next bike might be a SV650, or she might buy a '70's midsize Honda and build herself a cafe racer. I think the latter would be totally cool.

So yeah, I recommend starting smart, and I practice what I preach.

PhilB

[SRTie4k]

If he had absolutely no experience whatsoever, I'd agree that an older 600 is not a good idea. But considering OP stated he was riding dirt bikes for 4 years, I think an F2/F3 is more than adequate to start riding street.

[SVRACER01]

Yeah, an opinion that 600 supersports are bad choices for new riders is definitely douchey. Especially when it's demonstrably true.

I had a sense from the "pet peeve" thread that you were SVRACER01's "favorite choirboy". You've confirmed it; good for you. I had just about put the both of you on ignore, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for putting me on there, though. If you are mature enough to avoid peeking and responding, that will help cut down on your annoyance rating. Can you ask your "mentor" to do the same?

Thanks,
PhilB

youre awfully crotchety for 49.
you take things far too personally around here. i was fucking with you in the other thread because you put yourself out there as an easy target. i guess we wont be doing any riding together this summer.
demonstrably true? maybe. especially on new ones. hence why i didnt suggest a new 600. the kids not a total newb as hes been dirt riding. he shows intelligence by putting money aside for proper gear. and his dad rides so hes got a lot going for him to the point that i would suggest an older 600. maybe in 15+ years ill suggest a '10 R6 to a newb because the 600s in 2020 will put out 160hp.

[SVRACER01]

Because even older 600 supersports are still supersports. They steer sharply, accelerate quickly, brake hard, and are otherwise much too sharply focused to be a good choice for a new rider. I had a 1989 Honda CBR600 as an extra bike for a while; it was a great bike, and nearly indestructible, but not a good beginner bike. Nearly 80 hp, top speed near 140, that's a lot of trouble a new rider could very quickly get into.

The EX500 or GS500 is a good choice if the new rider has some dirtbike experience, or is a larger person. Otherwise, yes, I recommend a 250 of some kind to start with.

I started on a 1976 Honda 360, and rode small Hondas and various scooters for about 6 years before buying my Monster. My wife spent a couple years on a 250 before I bought her a Monster. My daughter then has been riding the 250, and a Vespa, and her next bike might be a SV650, or she might buy a '70's midsize Honda and build herself a cafe racer. I think the latter would be totally cool.

So yeah, I recommend starting smart, and I practice what I preach.

PhilB

so by my math that means you started riding at what....25? with zero experience? ya...a small bike is def the way to go then. do i regret starting on a 600? nope. it was a great bike. just wish i had taken some training beforehand. had no idea what counter steering was or target fixation. had that bike for the better part of a year before i crashed it. probably couldve avoided it if i had known. i learned how to ride with no one to show me how. i wrecked a few bikes on my way but thats how it is. this kids got someone close that rides, and can probably teach him a thing or 2. you mention the performance aspect of a SS, which is why i said the F2 is very forgiving. you can make rookie mistakes on them and they dont make you pay for it. an EX 500 will do over 100 (barely....maybe) but F2s arent the knife edged machines of today. no tank slappers, unexpected wheelies and the brakes on them are what they put on SVs now.

[SVRACER01]

the bottom line is the kids gonna get whatever he wants. period. if hes dead set on a SS bike than a mid 90s SS is my offer. if he wants to start small, then an EX, SV, or even the Ninja 650 is my suggestion

[JohnnyV]

Because even older 600 supersports are still supersports. They steer sharply, accelerate quickly, brake hard, and are otherwise much too sharply focused to be a good choice for a new rider. I had a 1989 Honda CBR600 as an extra bike for a while; it was a great bike, and nearly indestructible, but not a good beginner bike. Nearly 80 hp, top speed near 140, that's a lot of trouble a new rider could very quickly get into.

The EX500 or GS500 is a good choice if the new rider has some dirtbike experience, or is a larger person. Otherwise, yes, I recommend a 250 of some kind to start with.

I started on a 1976 Honda 360, and rode small Hondas and various scooters for about 6 years before buying my Monster. My wife spent a couple years on a 250 before I bought her a Monster. My daughter then has been riding the 250, and a Vespa, and her next bike might be a SV650, or she might buy a '70's midsize Honda and build herself a cafe racer. I think the latter would be totally cool.

So yeah, I recommend starting smart, and I practice what I preach.

PhilB

youre awfully crotchety for 49.
you take things far too personally around here. i was fucking with you in the other thread because you put yourself out there as an easy target. i guess we wont be doing any riding together this summer.
demonstrably true? maybe. especially on new ones. hence why i didnt suggest a new 600. the kids not a total newb as hes been dirt riding. he shows intelligence by putting money aside for proper gear. and his dad rides so hes got a lot going for him to the point that i would suggest an older 600. maybe in 15+ years ill suggest a '10 R6 to a newb because the 600s in 2020 will put out 160hp.

I started on a Ninja 250 with my only previous street riding being on a 50cc scooter.

My brother started on a Ninja 250 with the same background as me.

My youngest brother, who had been riding dirt for 5 or so years prior to hitting the streets started on a CBR600F3.

We are all equally capable riders.

Generalizing everyone into the "You have to start on a 250 regardless of your previous experience" is a fairly ignorant comment.

Mental maturity and discipline has far more to do with how you fare on your first bike than the displacement of the motor beneath you in my opinion.

[Awesome]

Quick acceleration, sharp steering, hard braking....is someone in here talking about dirt experience?

[PhilB]

If he had absolutely no experience whatsoever, I'd agree that an older 600 is not a good idea. But considering OP stated he was riding dirt bikes for 4 years, I think an F2/F3 is more than adequate to start riding street.

If by "more than adequate" you mean "too much" then I agree. Really, an EX500 or GS500 would be a far better choice. Next best might be an SV650, Ninja 650, ER-6n, or Monster 620. 600 supersports are a distant third, even older ones. There are limited choices in the U.S. for good starter bikes, but there are a few. Again, I recommend starting smart.

PhilB

[PhilB]

youre awfully crotchety for 49.
you take things far too personally around here. i was fucking with you in the other thread because you put yourself out there as an easy target. i guess we wont be doing any riding together this summer.

I'm not upset, but I don't feel the obligation to be nice to people who are being jerks.

demonstrably true? maybe. especially on new ones. hence why i didnt suggest a new 600. the kids not a total newb as hes been dirt riding. he shows intelligence by putting money aside for proper gear. and his dad rides so hes got a lot going for him to the point that i would suggest an older 600. maybe in 15+ years ill suggest a '10 R6 to a newb because the 600s in 2020 will put out 160hp.

And you'll be making bad recommendations then as well. Just because bikes advance does not mean that the skills and abilities of beginning riders do. A new rider should still start on a bike that is suitable for a new rider.

PhilB

[SRTie4k]

You're just jealous that you never got to start out on a shiny new GSXR.

Besides, they don't make steam powered motorcycles anymore. The kid will survive on a 15 year old sport bike.

[SVRACER01]

so Phil, youre the advocate of starting "smart" but you jumped from a 30HP honda (and admittedly bounced around on other low HP bikes and scooters) for 6 years and then jumped onto an 80hp monster and have been riding that since before i graduated high school.
now i dont know what year/size monster you got the wife but i assume it was probably a 600 which means she went from a 45HP 250 to a 55hp bike. that seems like a more logical jump than yours.
im fairly certain that ive ended up your ignore list by now which is fine. ill type for the sake of typing. you may think you know more than me, but ive probably forgotten more than you know. he asked for opinion and i gave mine. not once did i say that anyone elses opinion was wrong...including yours. unlike you. if youre gonna get all butt sore over peoples opinion, you arent gonna last long here.

edit: didnt think i was being a jerk......but then again you dont really know me so....fair enough.
you seem to know Pete. Pete and i are friends (on face book too, so its a REAL friendship) maybe he can shed some light on it

[SVRACER01]

A new rider should still start on a bike that is suitable for a new rider.

PhilB

even a 250 will do the 1/4 mile in under 16 seconds which is faster than high majority of cars.

[imstuner]

I started out on an SV 650n in May last year and I think it's a great beginner bike. My balls got the better of me and I ended up getting a 2008 R1 by the end of summer. I'm a pretty reserve rider and take my time. I still think I should have kept my sv longer before upgrading.