[pbbbbt] lol @ H-D annual earnings report

[spicy]

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news...2009-earnings/


nice job guys.

For the Buell and MV loyal, Harley-Davidson’s latest earnings report should provide all the information as to why the Milwaukee manufacturer had to close and sell those brands respectively. Reporting a nearly 90% loss in annual income, Harley-Davidson earned only $70.6 million in 2009, compared to the $684.2 million Harley earned in 2008, which results in a staggering loss of income for the iconic motorcycle company.

For Q4 of 2009, Harley-Davidson actually operated in the red, and lost $218.7 million in net income by staying in business (Asphalt & Rubber actually made more money during the same time period than Harley-Davidson did, if that puts things into perspective). Additionally, Harley-Davidson is reporting a $147.2 million loss in revenue during its fourth quarter operations. The loss is associated with the reduction in production, and the $167.1 million in restructuring costs incurred because of the closure of the Buell Motorcycle brand.

[Tabby]

No pity from me, that's for damn sure.

[crowspeed07]

No pity from me, that's for damn sure.

No pity for a company that's an American icon? May not be everyone's cup of tea for a bike choice but the last thing we need is to see another company going out of business and the affect that will have on their employees.

[FirstDuc-1098]

No pity for a company that's an American icon? May not be everyone's cup of tea for a bike choice but the last thing we need is to see another company going out of business and the affect that will have on their employees.

also, all the motor companies are having problems

[crowspeed07]

also, all the motor companies are having problems

Yea hopefully they saved for a rainy day(or years depending on how long this downturn goes on for)

[markbvt]

No pity from me -- not because I don't like their motorcycles, but because H-D's management seems to be too fucking blind to understand how irrelevant they're making the brand. The core Harley demographic is getting pretty old, and the company's doing nothing to attract younger motorcyclists. Crap like the new Sportster 48 model they just introduced reinforces this -- this company seems to be incapable of looking forward. All they can ever do is look to their past and put a bunch of old-styled parts on an existing bike and call it a new model.

Don't get me wrong, I like retro-styled bikes. But I like them to have modern technology behind their classic styling.

Harley-Davidson will gain my respect when they stop bowing down to the aging 1%ers they seem to build their bikes for and start putting a little effort into R&D and maybe do something a little innovative. Until then, I don't care what happens to them. Let Victory take over as the American cruiser manufacturer -- at least their bikes are kind of interesting.

--mark

[obsolete]

I couldn't care less of how much of an icon you are, if you run your business like crap then you lose. Unless the US doesn't want you too, then you get tons of money.

As soon as the economy goes back up there will be plenty more middle class wanna be bikers dropping their kids tuition on the newest Harley POS and just as much in Harley clothes.

[richw]

I thought this was in the cards when I noticed 3 years ago that 3/4 of used bikes for sale were Harleys.

I believe that most Harley owners would have no problem with an older Harley as I don't know how you would tell it from a new one.

Next I expect a complete collapse of the price of the used bikes and then the company has to crash right after that as a used Harley is 6K and new is 22K ... what would you do

Until there is a roll back of EPA and OSHA we will continue to lose all manufacturing.

[Tabby]

No pity from me -- not because I don't like their motorcycles, but because H-D's management seems to be too fucking blind to understand how irrelevant they're making the brand. The core Harley demographic is getting pretty old, and the company's doing nothing to attract younger motorcyclists. Crap like the new Sportster 48 model they just introduced reinforces this -- this company seems to be incapable of looking forward. All they can ever do is look to their past and put a bunch of old-styled parts on an existing bike and call it a new model.

Don't get me wrong, I like retro-styled bikes. But I like them to have modern technology behind their classic styling.

Harley-Davidson will gain my respect when they stop bowing down to the aging 1%ers they seem to build their bikes for and start putting a little effort into R&D and maybe do something a little innovative. Until then, I don't care what happens to them. Let Victory take over as the American cruiser manufacturer -- at least their bikes are kind of interesting.

--mark

I have to say that I'm thinking along the same lines. They rode and positively
milked their own popularity, and saturated the living hell out of their market segment. They let the dealers charge WAAY over msrp on top of that. All of those eggs in one basket. Then the fad passes, and it was going to, as all fads tend to do, then the recession smacks em down even further. No pity. If they weren't so damn narcissistic about their own image, icon or not, they would have diversified their line up,,,, um,,,, decades ago.
Most other motorcycle manufacturers aren't solely dependent on one or two particular images. Did Honda stick with just the CB750? Hell no!

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, if this is the closest they have ever been to going belly up. Even worse than when AMF bailed them out {double edged sword that was.}. A great irony would be if they did go tits up, the aftermarket could probably fill in the void with not much of a fuss, keeping all of the older ones running. The true 1% crowd would probably love it though,
after all of the yuppies sell them off at a loss.

[butcher bergs]

Long story short, H-D has burnt their hands on the stove yet again and hasn't learned.

How's that saying go about old dogs and new tricks?

[vintage ex race]

Plus on top of the fact that they have flooded the market so much , hell you can buy them pretty cheaply compared to brand new. All these bankbook bikers , now realize that it is not for them , or they get alittle scared got to sell the bike . Has anyone looked at craigslist what model do you want, lets see we'll paint this one black and call it this , and that one orange and call it that . It's bullshit serves them right

[scubasteve]

It sucks, but it's a result of poor business practices.

Their bikes are wayyyy over priced, and still the same old thing.

[eboos]

No pity from me -- not because I don't like their motorcycles, but because H-D's management seems to be too fucking blind to understand how irrelevant they're making the brand. The core Harley demographic is getting pretty old, and the company's doing nothing to attract younger motorcyclists. Crap like the new Sportster 48 model they just introduced reinforces this -- this company seems to be incapable of looking forward. All they can ever do is look to their past and put a bunch of old-styled parts on an existing bike and call it a new model.

Don't get me wrong, I like retro-styled bikes. But I like them to have modern technology behind their classic styling.

Harley-Davidson will gain my respect when they stop bowing down to the aging 1%ers they seem to build their bikes for and start putting a little effort into R&D and maybe do something a little innovative. Until then, I don't care what happens to them. Let Victory take over as the American cruiser manufacturer -- at least their bikes are kind of interesting.

--mark

No modern technology? ABS brakes without an unsightly tone ring. Fly by wire. Engine temperature management systems. What modern technology are you looking for?

Victory take over... I think that they will have a lot of catching up to do before they are even a blip in the radar.

The 48? Look at all winter releases that Harley comes out with. This is a parts bin bike. They all are. The summer releases are when all the new stuff comes out.

[scottieducati]

Gotta agree with eBoos on one thing... HD *does* have some pretty innovative tech in their bikes, there was an article a wayyyys back about the lengths they go to to incorporate new technology while making it invisible to the naked eye. Their ABS system is indistinguishable, unlike what you see on every other OEM out there where you can spot it from a mile away. Pretty neat stuff.

Their marketing and whole "brand image" BS is what really pisses me off, sadder still to see Ducati going the same route with the whole lifestyle thing. Guess it just doesn't pay the bills to simply be an OEM that makes good bikes that enthusiasts want.

Who wants to buy MV with me? I've got a couple of bucks kickin around here somewhere...

[Jim]

I've got a couple of bucks kickin around here somewhere...

not after opening that 400 motor last night

[markbvt]

No modern technology? ABS brakes without an unsightly tone ring. Fly by wire. Engine temperature management systems. What modern technology are you looking for?

Okay, granted, but this is nevertheless a company that steadfastly refuses to build a bike that appeals to younger consumers. H-D have known for years that their demographic is aging and will soon stop buying bikes, and they're still doing nothing about it. I can't feel any pity for a company that so relentlessly tries to cling to the past without facing the future.

--mark

[butcher bergs]

I've got a couple of bucks kickin around here somewhere...

Haiti is calling.

[eboos]

Harley's problem is that anything new is rejected by it's customer base. They do have successful bikes that are attracting younger buyers, but by younger, I am talking about late 20's to early 30's. Under that age, price is going to be the biggest issue. Then there is the matter of people not wanting to buy a Sportster model because everyone has it in there head that it is a "girl's" bike.

Harley Davidson, while fun to make fun off, is not going away. They make some pretty stupid decisions, but they make a lot more good ones.

[obsolete]

Engine temperature management systems. What modern technology are you looking for?

A bike that won't cook it's self to death.

I think I need to ride some brand new Harleys, cause everyone I've road has acted like a freight train in acceleration and braking.

[Rambunctous]

Okay, granted, but this is nevertheless a company that steadfastly refuses to build a bike that appeals to younger consumers. H-D have known for years that their demographic is aging and will soon stop buying bikes, and they're still doing nothing about it. I can't feel any pity for a company that so relentlessly tries to cling to the past without facing the future.

--mark

They have tried in the past to build bikes that were sporty. They were rejected by the HD crowd and the sportbike crowd.....I remember way back when BMW introduced a inline triple and I thought nobody would buy that. Now they are making many bikes including the boxer. Part of HD's problem is the attitude of their riders that your shit for riding another brand so even if they were to offer up something decent I would not buy it in spite.

[schleppy]

I couldn't care less of how much of an icon you are, if you run your business like crap then you lose. Unless the US doesn't want you too, then you get tons of money.

As soon as the economy goes back up there will be plenty more middle class wanna be bikers dropping their kids tuition on the newest Harley POS and just as much in Harley clothes.

+1

Why did they call it an earnings report? I don't see any earnings

[eboos]

Contrary to popular belief, clothing makes up the smallest amount of sales dollars in a dealership. It is something like 2% or less, and the profit isn't much higher. Motorcycle sales, makes up more then 60% of total dealership sales. Next is service, followed by parts then F&I and then clothing.

[Slyder]

If HD still built the VR-1000 and it wasn't stupid priced (last I knew they sold for 50k) I'd take one. That bike was modern for its time.

But people are right. Look at the V-rod, the hardcore HD people all hate that bike...I'll take a shovel or knuckle head over that (*&%$^&(* thing and so on.

But no worries, HD's new name will be HDO...harley-davidson-obama. The icon will get a bail out if it gets bad enough so it can continue to do the same stupid shit that it did before...just like the retards at GM and Chrysler.

If only they had more engineers than lawyers. Lets try to patent a sound...wow there's money well spent.

Anyone ever see the multi-kabilion dollar sound testing area? They care so much about how their friggin bikes sound, it's nearly disgusting. Literally tons, truck loads, of money pissed away on sound alone.

So in the end, I'm on the F 'em bandwagon too.

Stupid management...does a company good nowadays.

[eboos]

They took a loss for ONE FISCAL QUARTER. They still made a profit for the year.

[butcher bergs]

Eric, was that you calling me earlier this week? I couldn't find my phone for a few days.....some 401 number?