[pbbbbt] lol @ H-D annual earnings report

[eboos]

I had to laugh at the special drag race V-Rod. Oh wow, it can get into the 9's, and I think that was with wheely bars too.

The Destroyer is what it is, a spec bike for a spec series. It's a bike that anyone can buy and run right out of the box. Comparing the Destroyer to a Busa would be like comparing a RS125 to a SV650. Yes, a SV650 could run as fast or faster then a RS125, but the RS is a purpose built race bike designed to run against other similar bikes.

[obsolete]

No, it was Emmanuel Lewis...you know, Webster? Head editor of the dictionary?

I confuse the 2 all the time.

[butcher bergs]

The XR750 has been dominant the last 30+ years...
and yes last year too the AMA Flat Track HEAVY has been HD.

You know damn well this is a loaded statement.

AMA all but banned everyone else other engine configurations from flat track as soon as those bikes started winning.



Kurlon - I'm fully aware of other offerings for tank bags. Point is, people get off on an image and what they feel they need to do in order to convey that image. H-D and Ducati seem to be the most blatent at doing this with other OEM's falling closely behind. Besides, what I posted was a general example. Roll with it.

[Pittenger5]

But hey, at least they're sending some motorcycles to Haiti!

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=39301

[eboos]

But hey, at least they're sending some motorcycles to Haiti!

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=39301

Me and another sales person were joking about this. Saying that they were probably sending leftover Crossbones and Rockers. These bikes didn't sell to well.

[tonyd]

Doesn't matter if you like the HD lifestyle they have been pitching for years now their issues are economic... credit is not so easy to come by anymore for businesses or bike buyers.

I know lots of guys that financed their Harley purchase via home equity loans. Never a good idea in my mind but way more difficult now than a few years ago.

And the weekend warriors that used to pay cash for the bikes either got laid off or are wondering if they are next.

[Sheppo]

You know damn well this is a loaded statement.

AMA all but banned everyone else other engine configurations from flat track as soon as those bikes started winning.

Paul,
I am aware of this my first comment was that he contradicted himself. Harley markets posers and cruisers. They do a good job at it. That is all I really meant. I did point out that Harley's do have some performance in a niche market.

[Sheppo]

Doesn't matter if you like the HD lifestyle they have been pitching for years now their issues are economic... credit is not so easy to come by anymore for businesses or bike buyers.

I know lots of guys that financed their Harley purchase via home equity loans. Never a good idea in my mind but way more difficult now than a few years ago.

And the weekend warriors that used to pay cash for the bikes either got laid off or are wondering if they are next.

ALL manufacturers are suffering in this economic times and finance is NOT easy to get on anything.

[eboos]

Harley markets posers and cruisers.

Doesn't every bike manufacturer have it's share of poser customers? Don't even begin to suggest that Harley has more posers then Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda. For every Harley poser or weekend warrior, there is also the guy who puts 15,000 miles or more on their bikes per year.

[Tabby]

Doesn't every bike manufacturer have it's share of poser customers? Don't even begin to suggest that Harley has more posers then Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda. For every Harley poser or weekend warrior, there is also the guy who puts 15,000 miles or more on their bikes per year.

Certainly, lets be fair to those who honestly enjoy their bikes, regardless of what they ride. I too have taken part in quite a few HD bash fests. Mostly because over the years I have met too many of the ones that are a bit hard to respect. In recent years, I have had the good fortune of meeting and befriending some straight up HD riders. As far as imaging goes, it probably is another time worn case of "the few that ruin it for the many".

[Sheppo]

Doesn't every bike manufacturer have it's share of poser customers? Don't even begin to suggest that Harley has more posers then Kawasaki, Suzuki or Honda. For every Harley poser or weekend warrior, there is also the guy who puts 15,000 miles or more on their bikes per year.

Agreed and Erik I ride an HD you're preaching to the choir. I am on yourside.
all my HD friends put on TONS of miles, they are dirty and get put away wet.

[eboos]

I am on yourside.

lol. It's winter.

[Speed Demon 828]

Drag racing, to me, as far as HD is concerned, is an utter joke. There are virtually no HD machines out there, that have much "HD" in them,,,, that are truly competitive against their Japanese peers.

Tabby have you seen a Japanese NHRA pro stock motorcycle? They have as much O.E. stuff as the Harley's and Buells(like none). The motors are based off air cooled inline 4 GS 1100 motors from the 80's. Whenever any of the bikes have an advantage they are immediately penalized with weight. All of those bike are about as pro stock as a NASCAR cup car!

[Woodsy]

No pity for a company that's an American icon? May not be everyone's cup of tea for a bike choice but the last thing we need is to see another company going out of business and the affect that will have on their employees.

Yea, it would suck if an american icon went under and all it's employees lost their jobs. this would suck almost as much as another american icon being shut down by their parent company with no effort to let them thrive independently or under the wing of another manufacturer and all those people lost their jobs... wait...

Long story short, Alex is right, you run your business like crap and you go under. NO PITY. that is how the free market works. Will people loose their jobs? yes. Sad? yes. but that is how this works. Let us not forget that this "american icon" does a good deal of manufacturing in china... BUY AMERICAN!

This is a company that sat on their ass, became out of date and uncompetitive, and expected some semblance of loyalty and residual popularity to keep sales where they were and it bit them in the ass. I say good. let the cards fall where they may.

[eboos]

Once again...

They took a loss for ONE FISCAL QUARTER. They still made a profit for the year.

Damn there are a whole lot of assumptions being made here.

[butcher bergs]

Well if they can find a way to find another 100 horse outta those twins while producing something that'll let me enjoy an honest sporting ride, I'd buy a Harley right now.

As far as the technology thing, there are many improvements that could be made but the problem is, it would be improvements along the lines of what the Japs are making. Just look at what BMW did in order to produce the S1RR. Most of that bike's technology has been adopted from what the Japs have been using for decades now. I'm sure BMW wanted to keep their Telelever front and shaft drive, but it simply adds too much weight or is flat out not competitive in the market segment they are shooting for.

Harley needs to realize that there are only so many iterations that can be made from a steel frame and a pair of cylinders and glittery paint ain't gonna cut it. There is so much they are missing out on and it's all because they have refused to develop a truly new motorcycle.

[Tabby]

Tabby have you seen a Japanese NHRA pro stock motorcycle? They have as much O.E. stuff as the Harley's and Buells(like none). The motors are based off air cooled inline 4 GS 1100 motors from the 80's. Whenever any of the bikes have an advantage they are immediately penalized with weight. All of those bike are about as pro stock as a NASCAR cup car!

Yeah, I've seen those too, and you are right. The thing is, I think the Japanese factorys have zero involvement with those fellows. I mean jeez, ultra hot rodded engines using a few parts from an early 80s design?

Bergs sort of touched on things I've been thinking. Since when is an in-line four a Japanese design. They didn't invent the in-line four. The current in-line designs owe as much to rules, practicality, and evolution as anything else. Rules? Didn't the FIM mandate the max cylinder count at 4,,, back in the 60s? Practicality? An across the frame four can be a reasonbly compact design, that lends itself to mass production a little cheaper than some other designs. Evolution? Designs within the cylinder count are bound to evolve as competition drives the designs forward, regardless of the country of origin. The Japanese just weren't afraid or dare I say it, too proud to keep going in what ever direction it took to win. Why are cylinder head designs allowed to evolve within some companies, yet they cling to some iconic design/cylinder count as their image? Just as a good 4 valve head has proven to be superior to a two valve head, why the prejudice against cylinder count? The Italians had screaming in-line fours long before Japan did. {MV, Gilera, etc}
Look at our own car world. There are legions of people who cheer on, and identify strongly with the "V8" of their favorite brands. No problems with brand identity there, because of virtually identical designs{viewed from a distance}.