Question on contesting speed violation

[Kham]

EDIT: I just want to put out there that I have no issue paying the fine...its the amt of points that i would like to stay off my license, thats why I would like to try to contest this.

same for everyone.

the way i look at it, it's the guy that write you up. if no one writes you up then point=0. everyone is happy except for people who made money off you. dont care about speed law. i havent kill anyone.

[Doc]

I've had a lot of tickets over turned, grant it they've been getting tougher in court lately. You're almost considered guilty before you even get in there, but it's always worth fighting it. Even if the ticket get's reduced, but you want to go in there with your story ready and not admit guilt at all and hope for the best.

What are you guys, cops or something?

But were you guilty?

[Doc]

I'm just curious, but what ever happened to taking responsibility for your actions? If you were speeding, you get a ticket. If you cant ride within the speed limits on the road, we have several track day vendors on this site who can satisfy your need for speed in a considerably safer and cheaper manner.

And even beyond that, I am constantly amazed by the number of these threads lately. I have been a cop less than two years; before I was a cop I rode around on an R1 with a loud pipe for years. I never got pulled over on it, even once. Because I left my "spirited" riding for places appropriate for such things and rode like a sane human through towns and crowded areas.

If you want to pay less for your ticket, or think you deserve a break because you have demonstrated a clean driving record, thats one thing. But blaming your ticket on the cop because somehow its their fault you were speeding is.....silly.

Fucking Squids!

[SSearchVT]

If this is the first ticket you've gotten in a while, and it's a 3 pointer - just pay the damn thing... If you're anything like me - you've gotten away with a lot worse, this time you got busted and it's time to pay your dues... Keep your nose clean for a few years, don't make any big changes to your insurance, and it will go away after a while. If you fight the ticket - you'll burn up at least one day in the courtroom.

If this is the ticket that will get your rates hiked, or license yanked - fight it. I've done this in the past to delay getting the points on my ticket until an old ticket falls off. Here's my view of VT traffic court - You're tieing up a judge, courtroom, police officer, etc - You're probably not getting out of there for free unless something amazing happens. The judge will take the word of the police officer over yours and neither of them really care how much math, science, smoke and mirrors you bring into the room.

That said - I had the amazing happen. The officers laser gun trainer did not show for the hearing and the officer requested that all charges be dropped.

I'm guessing this isn't a 45 in a 35 ticket - sounds more like an 80 in a 50. The officer will use words like 'estimated their speed at XXXX'. At that point quibbling over whether you were doing 78 or 80, and the calibration of the radar gun is pointless. Your best bet - try to pay a higher fine for a lesser offense preferrable one without points...

[Doc]

Well, I've beaten Loudon County, Louisa County and Fairfax County, Va. cops on one, two, and two occasions (respectively) over the last twenty years based on their faulty-ass, lame testimony and as far as I'm concerned, criminal misstatements in court as to how they used the KR10 and KR-12 instant-on radar units to bust ME out of a pack of vehicles moving faster than I was while I was out on the bike. Nonsensical notions that they "Isolated" the return on my bike at an admitted 500 yards or more and a beam spread of over 100 feet (and that's PER Kustom Electronics' own instructions as to the use of these devices). Cops are instructed in so many words that these are for use against a single target, not multiple. Radar is NOT Lidar, it isn't nearly so precise, and everyone in the cop/court/insurance business knows it. So, I take the charts from the manufacturer into court, draw the cones and distances on the courtroom whiteboard, hand the judge the printout the cops are trained on showing the spread of the signal to the target, and they throw it out of court. They HAVE to. But the onus is ALWAYS on the defendant, because unless you show contradiction to the prima facie standard (in effect making a crooked process look like a monkey), you're busted. Remember, the common denominator is always, the bike is the easier bust. Always. Cops are practical. Easy is best.

But you cops and pro-cops out there pushing (and enforcing) the "accuracy" of speed monitoring radar in the Kustom Electronics radar venue, stow it sideways dry, ok? Nothing is "isolated", it's your word against ours, and in this dog and pony show, in multi-vehicle radar profiles, any notion that you "isolated the bike" is nonsenscal and crooked. And if that's what YOU participate in, well, if the shoe fits, wear it. So I know how to beat it, it's easy if you have the backbone, and so what? I wasn't speeding then, I'm not speeding now. But that doesn't mean the cops, courts and insurance companies aren't out to pick my pocket anyway.

Ok so take the radar out of the equation.

You are speeding. It is CLEAR you are speeding. The cop SEES YOU SPEEDING and stops you.

Are you guilty?? What other evidence does he need? Before radar how did this work?

[Doc]

I just noticed highsider is from Vermont...he's probably the cop that pulled you over

He's got all our notes now for the case, good thing this guy was real vague about the facts. Who knows who's on these forums.

I'm out...good luck Megatron...no hard feelings highsider, see you out on the trails.

I know both Highsider AND Megatron (it is a small state )

[Megatron802]

I know both Highsider AND Megatron (it is a small state )

Doc get back to work and quit wasting Uncle Sams money

[obsolete]

Ok so take the radar out of the equation.

You are speeding. It is CLEAR you are speeding. The cop SEES YOU SPEEDING and stops you.

Are you guilty?? What other evidence does he need? Before radar how did this work?

I fight tickets as a protest to a system that I disagree with. Guilt is incosiquential of me fighting that ticket.

So get back to work and stop waisting my tax money so they need to dole out less tickets.

[Doc]

Doc get back to work and quit wasting Uncle Sams money

Not working yet. Just got back from Physical Therapy.

[Doc]

I fight tickets as a protest to a system that I disagree with. Guilt is incosiquential of me fighting that ticket.

So get back to work and stop waisting my tax money so they need to dole out less tickets.

Could you protest in a more positive/constructive way?

I am all for protest... I am all for arguing a ticket to see if you can get the points or fine reduced (heck go to court just to get the additional time to save up to pay for it).

Guilty is Guilty though. Man up, apologize and be honest when you say you won't do it again, then ask if they might reduce the fine/points.

You get more bees with honey than you do vinegar.

Hey Megatron... when do you wanna do that track day?

Ok I am going to work now.

[Kham]

Ok so take the radar out of the equation.

You are speeding. It is CLEAR you are speeding. The cop SEES YOU SPEEDING and stops you.

Are you guilty?? What other evidence does he need? Before radar how did this work?

if you take the radar out then the cop is hallucinating.

[Kham]

highsider, do the right thing and fix the ticket for megatron and make everyone happy.

[obsolete]

There is no more constructive or positive way I can think of to protest than me saving hundreds/thousands of dollars. That's fact.

I agree with going to court, but I will use every avenue of defense to get the ticket thrown out. The system is in place for a reason. It needs to be proven that I was going a certain speed inorder for me to be guilty. If he can't prove it then I am not guilty (in a court of law).

[Kham]

i'll tell you something about feeling guilty going fast. dont feel it at all. just scare.

[ssg]

highsider, do the right thing and fix the ticket for megatron and make everyone happy.

hahah I think that is what this whole thread was about

[Cheese]

The issue with paying the fine isn't the law, it's the liberal enforcement of the laws. Officers get to choose who they penalize for breaking the law and who they let go based on their own personal criteria. I'll bet almost every motorist that passed this officer was driving over the speed limit. That means everyone on the road was guilty. Some would say, "They didn't get caught." Well, if you believe that officers can estimate speeds within a few miles per hour or that a properly calibrated RADAR used by a trained operator works, they were all caught. All guilty.

Did everyone speeding that night pay the fine and get insurance surcharges? If not, why this guy then? Because he broke the law by a bigger amount? If I steal $1 from a bank am I not a thief if someone else stole $2?

Don't get me wrong, I support all of our public servants. I don't blame officers for this flaw in our legal system. It's not their fault that we're all criminals and they have to choose which of us to convict. It's just a system that doesn't work and until someone comes up with a solution that is fair, I'll fight the tickets I receive.

[toocrazy2yoo]

That's all I've been trying to say, it's always better to fight the ticket, but you have to PROVE the officer didn't accurately enough prove your speed.

Well, and even that's a tough one. And, one other thing I didn't mention, but DOES deserve mention, even if assumed, peeps need to be truthful. If the Mann gets you fair and square, pay your fine, shut up, slow down. I'm not advocating anyone go into court and lie here. This one issue I have with traffic radar is just that-my one issue. But don't go into court full of indignation when you know the cops gotcha fair and square.

Not that any given cop gives a shit what I think, but in all other issues, I support the cops and what they're faced with every day. For my part, they can beat Rodney King and cuff a mutt like Professor Gates all day long with no gripes from me. Used to be an "Instructional Interlude" is what kept peeps in line, and all of a sudden the cops have to coddle creeps..

I suppose the frothing that takes place wouldn't be quite SO vigorous if the effects on insurance and license for violations of 10 or 15 over weren't so damned onerous. These are, after all, violations that are so easy to commit without even thinking about it, but probably are not SO serious in the scheme of things compared to the consequences on license and wallet.

[toocrazy2yoo]

Ok so take the radar out of the equation.

You are speeding. It is CLEAR you are speeding. The cop SEES YOU SPEEDING and stops you. Are you guilty?? What other evidence does he need? Before radar how did this work?

Doc, the RADAR, as used to pluck a bike or a car out of a pack, accurately or not, is an improper use, period. These guys have another tool at their disposal, LIDAR (Laser), and with that, they should throw RADAR down the toilet for the purposes of "reading" a number of vehicles from a standing or moving position.. If I'm the only vehicle on a two-lane, if I'm speeding (and we all know when we're speeding, whether we think radar is accurate or not) and the cop has his KR hung out on the side running it, and gets me, that's fair and square. LIDAR is fair and square. VASCAR is fair and square. But plucking a bike out of the back of a pack of speeding trucks and cars that could just as easily be the slowest vehicle is a C/S use of the tool, and if it ever happens to you, you'll probably get my perspective. And that's the gist of my objection.

I'm not built to go into court, throw up my hand to swear to tell the truth and then lie. If you're speeding, you should pay your fine and slow down. And if you're out there squdding, doing wheelies, straight-line nut-casing out on the slab, over-smoking your line in the twisties, well, it's just a matter of time before you crash out anyway. But I don't do any of that stuff and still used to get snagged every now and then anyway, and probably will again. Especially with this beast I just picked up. If it's fair, I'll pay. If not, it's game on.

[toocrazy2yoo]

There is no more constructive or positive way I can think of to protest than me saving hundreds/thousands of dollars. That's fact.
I agree with going to court, but I will use every avenue of defense to get the ticket thrown out. The system is in place for a reason. It needs to be proven that I was going a certain speed inorder for me to be guilty. If he can't prove it then I am not guilty (in a court of law).

Yeah, but are you willing to go into court knowing you were speeding (and we all know), lie, plead not guilty, and then go to work "proving" you weren't speeding? THAT is at least, hell, is, worse than a cop doing a bad read and defending it, mistaken or not.

[sandman]

And even beyond that, I am constantly amazed by the number of these threads lately. I have been a cop less than two years; before I was a cop I rode around on an R1 with a loud pipe for years. I never got pulled over on it, even once. Because I left my "spirited" riding for places appropriate for such things and rode like a sane human through towns and crowded areas.

If you want to pay less for your ticket, or think you deserve a break because you have demonstrated a clean driving record, thats one thing. But blaming your ticket on the cop because somehow its their fault you were speeding is.....silly.

back then (at least in vt) there were more leo's on the road and very few highwaymen.

times have changed there are fewer and fewer leo's and more highwaymen.

highwaymen are NOT there for anyone's safety!

a speed that's reasonable and prudent for the current conditions in the vehicle your operating is not speeding.






highwayman |ˈhīˌwāmən|
noun ( pl. -men) historical
a man, typically in a car on the side of the road with radar, who holds up travelers at gunpoint in order to rob them.