Range Rover runs over biker(s)

[DucDave]

Fortunately none of the people that chased a family down and brutally beat the father got hurt, that would have been awful because more people other than a innocent man would have gotten hurt. Not judging just saying, that won't be me...

I guess being paralyzed after being run over doesn't count as being hurt?

Pointing that adds nothing to this thread (nor have any of the last 50 posts) but I only mention it in the interest of something reflecting accuracy....

(BTW, I'm not anti-gun. But pro-gun PEOPLE sure can test my patience...

Having a hammer as your only tool doesn't make pounding a screw in the right application...)

[SteveM]

I've read but avoided commenting thus far.

But it seems to me that Lien can argue "heat of the moment" in how he handled his SUV and struck Mieses. If he had a gun and used it, his actions would likely be interpreted as more intentional. I am not a gun owner, but I understand three things about gun ownership.


Do not carry a gun unless you are prepared to point it at someone.
Do not point it at someone unless you are prepared to fire it.
Do not fire it unless you are prepared to take a life.

I'm not arguing good or bad, but I think there would be a big difference in public perception in Lien had opened fire on the mob.

[butcher bergs]

I guess being paralyzed after being run over doesn't count as being hurt?

I'm guessing the paralyzed part doesn't hurt so much.

[SteveM]

I'm guessing the paralyzed part doesn't hurt so much.

Cruel, but funny.

Well done

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

I guess being paralyzed after being run over doesn't count as being hurt?

I'm guessing the paralyzed part doesn't hurt so much.

Bravo!

[e30addict]

I'm not arguing good or bad, but I think there would be a big difference in public perception in Lien had opened fire on the mob.

I guess that would depend on when it would have happened, the first, second or third time the SUV was stopped. AT least it SHOULD anyway. The first few times clearly had other options, the third one he was pretty much screwed. No real options available to him then it seems.

I suspect you're right though, the public uproar would probably be considerably different, especially considering the odds of being a legal firearm owner in NYC are basically slim/none.

[SteveM]

This is probably unanswerable in any objective way, but I wonder if the restrictive gun laws in places like NYC embolden knuckleheads like this more than in a more gun friendly place?

I guess I'm just musing a bit on the old saw that an armed society is a polite society.

[G21forme]

I guess being paralyzed after being run over doesn't count as being hurt?

Pointing that adds nothing to this thread (nor have any of the last 50 posts) but I only mention it in the interest of something reflecting accuracy....

(BTW, I'm not anti-gun. But pro-gun PEOPLE sure can test my patience...

Having a hammer as your only tool doesn't make pounding a screw in the right application...)

I was referring to the "people that chased a family down" paralyzed guy didn't chase anyone correct? I intentionally worded it in such a manner to exclude paralyzed guy from what I was saying.

Nobody said only tool, if you look back I posted a partial list of tools I keep in my vehicle one being a firearm. It's just another tool in the box and they all have a purpose, I assure you when my battery dies I don't blast some hollow points in it .

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[butcher bergs]

... I assure you when my battery dies I don't blast some hollow points in it

Boring

[Garandman]

This is probably unanswerable in any objective way, but I wonder if the restrictive gun laws in places like NYC embolden knuckleheads like this more than in a more gun friendly place?

I guess I'm just musing a bit on the old saw that an armed society is a polite society.

The book Freakonomics took on that question. Simply put, neither restrictive gun laws and low rates of ownership nor minimal gun laws with high ownership rates directly correlate with violent crime rates. The variable with the best correlation is police feet on the street.

Just wrote an article about this, since Mayor Menino claims we have "Some of the best gun laws in the country" but homicides have more than doubled since those laws passed.

[G21forme]

Boring

Although batteries have lead in them.... Maybe I SHOULD try shooting at it next time! Add lead, brilliant!

[LiterR1]

State Trooper spill the beans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPsLMDpLjE

[aldend123]

State Trooper spill the beans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPsLMDpLjE

At first, I was blown away that he stopped the whole highway just for those guys. But at the end he claims there were two other guys who took off? I didn't see them at the beginning of the video. Polite guy. But it's too bad to hear that they'll be treating all sport bikers like the rest of the ass clowns.

How do you tell people you aren't a giant tool, but still keep the bike and the clothing? Skateboarding is not a crime?

[gadget]

The book Freakonomics took on that question. Simply put, neither restrictive gun laws and low rates of ownership nor minimal gun laws with high ownership rates directly correlate with violent crime rates. The variable with the best correlation is police feet on the street.

Just wrote an article about this, since Mayor Menino claims we have "Some of the best gun laws in the country" but homicides have more than doubled since those laws passed.

in your article did you mention accidental shootings and suicides? Have they gone up or down as a result of these laws.

I am always curious why pro-gun people only focus on gun crimes where someone shoots someone else on purpose.

I have said this before, I believe that weapon retention and proper storage of weapons is far more important than people realize.

More cops are shot with their own gun than with anothers...kids shoot themselves by accident...suicide by gun takes a lot more forms than just one person putting a gun to their head, murder-suicide etc...

just thinking aloud...

[Kurlon]

I am always curious why pro-gun people only focus on gun crimes where someone shoots someone else on purpose.

Typically, those pushing for anti-gun laws tout crime as a primary driver for restricting them, hence the focus on stats that counter those claims.

[gadget]

Typically, those pushing for anti-gun laws tout crime as a primary driver for restricting them, hence the focus on stats that counter those claims.

So you are saying that this focus is in response to what Anti-gun people focus on...instead of a purposeful misdirection...I'm not convinced.

I would point to some of the NRA press releases but I doubt that would be a productive direction to take.

I am much more inclined to believe that scaring people into buying a gun requires that you focus on the scenario where the gun owner could successfully use a gun to defend himself from an attacker.

Bringing up the little boy who shot himself in the head, while playing with a gun, he found in the car or bringing up the little girl that was shot in the chest by her 6 year old brother won't sell as many guns.

You aren't about to buy a gun to shoot little Joey before he shoots his sister.

Consider auto industry, they talk about safety all the time.
Why don't we expect the same from the Gun manufacturers and Lobbies?

[G21forme]

It's my opinion that someone else's negligent handling or storing of a firearm shouldn't infringe on my rights. Same thing with suicides, why shouldn't I be able to exercise my rights because other people commit suicide? It has nothing to do with ME.

[Kurlon]

Who said anything about scaring people into buying guns?!

Politicians push for tightening gun laws based on criminal events with the idea that new laws will prevent them from happening. The logical counter is to show crime statistics that don't back that premise up. Have you heard the president discussing accidental shootings when discussing the need for 'assault weapons' bans? Anyone at the federal level why they were on national talk shows or giving sound bites for the nightly news? How about at the state level? All I heard was preventing another crime.

On the safety front, how would you define safety. I have friends in the firearms industry, including one gun designer. There is a ton of engineering that goes into those systems so that they never go off without direct trigger operation (More interlocks on bigger systems), without being properly assembled and in full battery, etc. Unable to be disassembled if in full battery, in short so they fire under a specific regimen of steps and thats it. Making sure that if there is a catastrophic failure, say someone decides to run crazy overdone proof rounds with the end of the barrel welded over, the system fails in a safe manor. I suspect that's not what you're looking for though?

There is a ton of money being poured into trying to come up with reliable means of preventing a gun from firing unless a specific person is operating it, but the challenge there is to do so reliably, both in preventing unauthorized people from using as well as always allowing the authorized person to do so, with no failure in either scenario.

There is a ton of mfg money poured into gun safety programs to teach people how to safely operate and OWN firearms, including what should be common sense instruction that if you have a gun, don't store it in a manor that little Timmy can get to it, etc. Were I so inclined I could likely get more class options as well as information on trigger safes, gun lockers, etc from a 5 minute trip to Cabelas than I can on how to effectively perform a controlled stop after a blowout from an week of visits to auto dealerships' fleets of sales drones. Sig Sauer in NH runs their own school for example.

I got nothing on the lobbies side of the house, about the only comment I can make there is in comparison to auto makers, auto makers aren't fighting a constant drive to be banned from existence.

[Garandman]

in your article did you mention accidental shootings and suicides? Have they gone up or down as a result of these laws.//

Neither pros nor antis like to talk about suicides. Who does?

The "pros" don't like to talk about suicides because it makes gun owners look crazy. The antis don't like to talk about suicides because they are generally about half of all gun homicides in most states, and if they were removed from the statistics, gun homicides would look like a lot less significant public safety issue.

I looked at suicide statistics in MA and it's shocking on many levels. For 2011 287 of the 600 suicides in MA were by hanging. 131 were by firearm. 112 were by "poisoning" mostly drug overdoses. But an additional 4,388 people attempted suicide. Consider that the rate in MA is 50% lower than in NH.

The Northeast is relatively low in suicide rate. About 50% of suicides are by gun and the CDC estimates there are as many as 650,000 attempted each year. The economic cost of medical benefits for those who were hospitalized after a suicide attempt is estimated to be $3 billion. About 14% of suicides are by military veterans, nearly the same # as the population.

[R7]

Wirelessly posted

I'm surprised it took this long for the usual posting clowns to turn this thread into a gun debate!

[Garandman]

Godwin's Law needs a corollary.

[DucDave]

Does every thread on NESR devolve into a 'gun' thread? Isn't one freeking gun thread enough?

[G21forme]

If I'm not mistaken this thread is about a family that was chased down by bikers who then pulled a father out of his vehicle and beat him in front of his family. I would think methods of preventing such events would have naturally become part of the discussion, no? If I started talking about how it would have helped to have bullet proof glass you might say sure that would have helped. A security team behind him sure etc etc... But when the discussion of and I'll say it slowly a self defense situation that the victim was powerless to protect his family turns towards the discussion of firearms the gun crowd gets labeled as clowns, No worries though I'd rather be a clown then an asshole because at least clowns make people happy unless you are afraid of clowns. Shit now I'm talking about clowns in this thread, I'll start a clown thread .

[Garandman]

Does every thread on NESR devolve into a 'gun' thread? Isn't one freeking gun thread enough?

Brazilian hijacking hijack.

I think this thread is on every car and bike forum in the US. And they've all gotten, well, "wide-ranging" for the simple reason that there hasn't been any new arrests or other news.

Advrider thread.

Then there's the NASIOC thread, which had several pages of arguments over statistics. For real. The mods renamed it "NYC - motorcyclists argue with SUV driver over statistics. Things get mean."

To which we can add, from the generally decorous Tiger1050 forum "What do you make of this?"

[Garandman]

Nothing like the strangest thing to happen in NYC lately.