Turn 9

**Pittenger5** · 08-26-09, 08:12 AM

So the next big place for me to work on.
I hear so much conflicting reports on how much to brake, and how much to slow to make the turn. I'm topping out 4th coming past 8, so the bikes pretty wound out. I understand the basic principle of the line through there, and that seems to be alright, but after I tip in at the cone, I'm def not swinging as wide in the direction of the swamp as most other people, which leads me to believe I'm braking way too much.
So how much do you REALLY brake? And I drop a gear there which seems to work, should I just use neutral or slight positive throttle in the bulk of the turn to slow it down or what.

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 08:24 AM

perhap just a 1 finger drag. You can use lean angle to scrub speed. It's not what I would call a braking zone. More of a slight application of the brakes to settle things.

**TheIglu** · 08-26-09, 08:26 AM

As soon as I'm upright after the treehouse I give barely a touch of brakes.

It's more of a mental thing than anything, I doesn't do crap to reduce speed.

Skim the inside curb, drive straight towards the outside of the corner and then bank in hard. Enjoy burying your puck for the rest of the corner. By mid corner you should be setting up for the ideal line through 10 visually.

(turn 9 is my favorite turn btw)

**RyanNicholson** · 08-26-09, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

More of a slight application of the brakes to settle things.

On my R6 I was WOT (or damn close) until the turn in for T9... roll off and feather the brake just a bit to get the bike to turn and settle, then slightly positive throttle around the corner.

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 08:32 AM

Dude, we should open a school!

**RyanNicholson** · 08-26-09, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

Dude, we should open a school!

lol we do seem to follow each other around these types of threads a lot. I just miss racing and these conversations are about as close to it as I'm gunna get this year

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 08:37 AM

me too!

**rolker** · 08-26-09, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

Dude, we should open a school!

Where do I sign up??

**seth399** · 08-26-09, 08:46 AM

**Pittenger5** · 08-26-09, 08:50 AM

Hmm, Im grabbing brake.
Guess I know what to work on next weekend.

**Awesome** · 08-26-09, 08:52 AM

You need to get the front compressed on a motard to get it to turn, so you need to brake some. Otherwise the forks will be fully extended the bike will turn slower than....uh....you turning a bike?

**CEO** · 08-26-09, 08:53 AM

Right in line with what Ryan said... Especially on the tard I barely brake at all, like light pull with 1 or 2 fingers as I downshift... I only do it to settle the bike down since the front is a little light there at WOT downhill, and to quicken the turn-in (reduced trail).

Then after that I have the throttle slightly cracked open through the turn. I find If I don't do that, I will get some chatter, even with the triple clamps....

On the R6 I grab a little bit more but that is because I need to work on getting my groove back there.

The back section 6-10 there is my favorite part of the track, especially 9... I think I am strongest back there. Still think I can get more cornerspeed there though

**Pittenger5** · 08-26-09, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

You can use lean angle to scrub speed.

Ok next stupid question, I hear this a lot. I assume its something from the physics of leaning that scrubs speed, even on positive or neutral throttle. Am I incorrect or do you have to do something at the same time?

**seth399** · 08-26-09, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Ok next stupid question, I hear this a lot. I assume its something from the physics of leaning that scrubs speed, even on positive or neutral throttle. Am I incorrect or do you have to do something at the same time?

u have to lock the rear wheel and hump the tank

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 09:08 AM

If you go from straight up to full lean in .5 seconds, the bike will slow quite a bit as it starts to change directions. Then you crack the throttle to stop the loss of momentum and roll on to increase momentum. It happens quickly. It's like applying both brakes if you think about it.

**JRide** · 08-26-09, 09:10 AM

I give a quick drag of the brakes to help flip the bike over into T9. I need to work on my turn in there. I see faster guys able to hold a tighter line than I do. I try and get my knee right on or over the curbing, swings me out too wide sometimes, which leaves me mid track instead of to the left for T10 turn in.

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 09:12 AM

see above post. You need to put the bike to FULL lean at the first curbing to hold that tight fast line. The bike will drift out to the fist seam in the pavement, but any further and you'll lose some momentum into and out of 10

**BMFR6** · 08-26-09, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

If you go from straight up to full lean in .5 seconds, the bike will slow quite a bit as it starts to change directions. Then you crack the throttle to stop the loss of momentum and roll on to increase momentum. It happens quickly. It's like applying both brakes if you think about it.

i could be way off here, but the smaller diameter on the edge of the tire would have something to do with it as well correct? this is what would create the "loss of momentum" you mention.

**a13x** · 08-26-09, 09:16 AM

I would reply since we're on the same bike, with the same tires, and have the same gearing, but it seems you already have a plethora of qualified answers.

**RyanNicholson** · 08-26-09, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by JRide

I give a quick drag of the brakes to help flip the bike over into T9. I need to work on my turn in there. I see faster guys able to hold a tighter line than I do. I try and get my knee right on or over the curbing, swings me out too wide sometimes, which leaves me mid track instead of to the left for T10 turn in.

Another thing to keep in mind if you're going wide is to take a look at what angle your bike is pointed down the hill as you go by the curb... if you can get your bike pointed down the hill even just a hair more it'll help keep you to the left of the track when you're setting up for T10. Try hanging to the right just a hair longer after the apex of T8.

**CEO** · 08-26-09, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

I assume its something from the physics of leaning that scrubs speed, even on positive or neutral throttle. Am I incorrect or do you have to do something at the same time?

Originally Posted by BMFR6

i could be way off here, but the smaller diameter on the edge of the tire would have something to do with it as well correct? this is what would create the "loss of momentum" you mention.

BMF is on to it...

The diameter of the tire is smaller on the edges, so you are essentially trying to make the wheels spin instantly quite a bit faster to keep your velocity the same... since they have a significant rotating mass they resist that change and therefore you slow down.

Also the bike wants to continue going straight but your tires are providing friction with the pavement as you turn to oppose that tendency, allowing you to turn the bike but also slowing you down as well.

**Doc** · 08-26-09, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

perhap just a 1 finger drag. You can use lean angle to scrub speed. It's not what I would call a braking zone. More of a slight application of the brakes to settle things.

Not that I am all that fast... But I was catching you going into 9 and almost made a move around the outside (but decided to be nice

) I don't think you need quite as much brakes as you are applying.

I just touch the front to settle things and I am working on my drive from 8 so that I can justify that. (sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have touched the brakes).

I turn in at the cone, set my lean angle and just when I think I am drifting a little wide the corner comes back to me and it is time to flip for 10.

I am also trying to not weight the inside handle bar (which helped alot last saturday) and roll on the throttle a little... I find myself coasting to much coming out of 9 and out of 8 and 5 too... any downhill really...

**Pittenger5** · 08-26-09, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by a13x

I would reply since we're on the same bike, with the same tires, and have the same gearing, but it seems you already have a plethora of qualified answers.

So you agree with everyone. And we're on different gearing, but Ill probably switch next time I switch a chain.

**BMFR6** · 08-26-09, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by ceo and a bunch of numbers

BMF is on to it...

The diameter of the tire is smaller on the edges, so you are essentially trying to make the wheels spin instantly quite a bit faster to keep your velocity the same... since they have a significant rotating mass they resist that change and therefore you slow down.

Also the bike wants to continue going straight but your tires are providing friction with the pavement as you turn to oppose that tendency, allowing you to turn the bike but also slowing you down as well.

you phrased that much better.

**Paul_E_D** · 08-26-09, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by BMFR6

i could be way off here, but the smaller diameter on the edge of the tire would have something to do with it as well correct? this is what would create the "loss of momentum" you mention.

That, and the fact that you are essentially throwing the bike sideways a little

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