Braking/cornering Q.

[SVRACER01]

im not really sure about this braking thing. i brake when i feel its necessary, and when im chasing someone i brake a little later.

i dont know if that means i should be using my "chasing" brake points through the whole race or just when i need them? its not always comforatable but im confident in my bike that all will be well and good as long as i do what im supposed to be doing (i.e. looking into turn, etc..)

[Paul_E_D]

I don't mean to start a pissing match. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry Jay. You seem to be learning just fine without my commentary.

[Kip]

Originally posted by SVRACER01
im not really sure about this braking thing. i brake when i feel its necessary, and when im chasing someone i brake a little later.

i dont know if that means i should be using my "chasing" brake points through the whole race or just when i need them? its not always comforatable but im confident in my bike that all will be well and good as long as i do what im supposed to be doing (i.e. looking into turn, etc..)

This means you are riding like a AM. When you get up to speed your going to have to use brake markers and see spots on the track to use as referance points to try and hit other wise you will not continue to lower your lap times. Take the advance course and the Woods will show you were you need to be if you want to go fast. I have never heard of anyone saying "I brake when i feel its necessary, and when im chasing someone i brake a little later".
I hope you don't get hurt riding like this.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally posted by Kip
This means you are riding like a AM.

Give him some credit..... you mean NV

[zx1012r]

When I took the advanced course last fall I learned a lot of valuable braking tecnique.

Eric told us to initially set the front with the front brake, and then squeeze as HARD as you can for a short distance, then start trail braking as you turn in. He called it "killing" the brakes. Then keep moving your brake marker up until you are at that point where it all flows through the corner.

I know I was braking hard before I took the school, but after I was braking way later than before, and keeping my corner speed similiar if not more than before. I think I thought that squeezing as hard as I could would lock the front, but like he said, even on his superbike with the brakes that has he can't lock the front with that initial hard sqeeze, due to gyrosopic effect and weight transfer.

Like he said, if you are not braking as hard as you can, or accelerating as hard as you can, then you are coasting, and that isn't fast!

[Paul_E_D]

Yeah, just to clarify. I don't think anyone here is advocating coasting up to the turn in point. When I say get off the brakes earlier, it's so you can get on the gas earlier. As in before the apex. It's possible to brake extremeley hard up to the apex, but that really kills your laptimes. That's why I say you need a brakes off marker, and that often you can benefit a lot by pushing it back a few yards.

[zx1012r]

Yes exactly!

The sooner I can get on the gas i.e. before the apex, the better the bike handles through the corner, and obviously with a low power bike, the sooner I can start my drive. I guess that is what he is saying here. It just sounded a little strange to me at first.

Wow, an actual racing thread!

[Hardcore]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
I don't mean to start a pissing match. I shouldn't have said that. Sorry Jay. You seem to be learning just fine without my commentary.

no need to apologize Paul, Jay can be a stubborn pig-headed son of a bitch + needs to be put in his place sometimes!

[a13x]

/me glad he has a close friend who's been racing since 2002 and Expert since 2004 on exact same bike he has.

[TTD]

You guys brake into Turn 1?






I imagine what people are calling "release the brakes" is probably more accurately stated as "release the kill".

As said above, you want to "settle, kill, trail".

Settle the front end with throttle off and partial brake.

KILL the front brake with maximum brake.

Trail the front brake to somewhere near the apex (on most corners).

And just as you're done trailing, the throttle should be opening.

Having said all that... I believe that a new racer should focus more on corner speed at first. This is best achieved by NOT late braking and stopping the "kill" (which you're probably not doing anyway) earlier.

Less braking will equate to better lap times NOT because you're braking late ... but because you're going to carry more corner speed COMFORTABLY ... which should encourage an earlier throttle open.

22 inches of snow today. VIR can't come soon enough!

[x2468]

Originally posted by zx1012r
When I took the advanced course last fall I learned a lot of valuable braking tecnique.

Eric told us to initially set the front with the front brake, and then squeeze as HARD as you can for a short distance, then start trail braking as you turn in. He called it "killing" the brakes. Then keep moving your brake marker up until you are at that point where it all flows through the corner.

I know I was braking hard before I took the school, but after I was braking way later than before, and keeping my corner speed similiar if not more than before. I think I thought that squeezing as hard as I could would lock the front, but like he said, even on his superbike with the brakes that has he can't lock the front with that initial hard sqeeze, due to gyrosopic effect and weight transfer.

Like he said, if you are not braking as hard as you can, or accelerating as hard as you can, then you are coasting, and that isn't fast!

that must kill ur hands.

[x2468]

Originally posted by Kip
This means you are riding like a AM. When you get up to speed your going to have to use brake markers and see spots on the track to use as referance points to try and hit other wise you will not continue to lower your lap times. Take the advance course and the Woods will show you were you need to be if you want to go fast. I have never heard of anyone saying "I brake when i feel its necessary, and when im chasing someone i brake a little later".
I hope you don't get hurt riding like this.

I'm familiar with this technique from reading about it, but im still wondering. isn't it danerous to be fixating on objects or points off the track? shouldn't you have all your focus on the track?

[a13x]

Perhiphial vision.

[Awesome]

Originally posted by x2468
I'm familiar with this technique from reading about it, but im still wondering. isn't it danerous to be fixating on objects or points off the track? shouldn't you have all your focus on the track?

You're not fixating on objects and definately not off the track by more than a foot if anything, such as an apex cone. What you're actually doing is following your visual line around the track and connecting that line together with points. It's kinda like you look for one point entering a corner, and when you hit your brake marker you shift to a different, when you start trailing off the brakes you get to the next. As i read it in a couple books and what I've found myself doing as I get more familiar and solidified in the lines that I know and want to be on, you should know your way around the track in your head and know the points that make the line bringing you around. Try closing your eyes and doing a lap around the track, what do you notice that you can see clearling, and what sections are blurred out. The parts that are blurry or not well defined are normally good places to get a few more refference points.

Paul, I don't take offense to remarks, As everyone at the track knows I'm very open to advice. I'm not comparing myself to a GP racer either, I'm simply illustrating that at the worlds highest, most efficient racing that's the techniques they're using. The way that quote reads to me is completely the opposite of that, and opposed to advice given to me that got me past a platue of mid 22's to flat 19's in a couple weekends. I have also learned a lot in my first year of racing, and can relate that to riders and racers close to my level possibly better than some experts trying to think back to a novice level of riding.

[Hardcore]

Originally posted by hessogood
You're not fixating on objects and definately not off the track by more than a foot if anything,

I like to fixate on the hot blonde with big tits sitting in the bleachers at turn 3! also I kinda like to look at the shape of the clouds when cresting the hill before going into the bowl! I also like to flip off the people standing in 1 while I drag a knee thru it !

[Awesome]

Originally posted by hardcore
I like to fixate on the hot blonde with big tits sitting in the bleachers at turn 3! also I kinda like to look at the shape of the clouds when cresting the hill before going into the bowl! I also like to flip off the people standing in 1 while I drag a knee thru it !

You mean flip off the people as you crash into turn one?

[Hardcore]

Originally posted by hessogood
You mean flip off the people as you crash into turn one?

I was draggin my knee first!

[Paul_E_D]

Jay, There is absolutely time out there by braking later. It may take years, but sooner or later, you'll exhaust that avenue but you will still be getting passed left and right. Then it might be time to pull this thread up and reconsider.

The 600 is a cornerspeed bike. I've watched guys try to point and shoot them for years and years. They never get fast. The problem is that they can't get on the gas soon enough because they are braking too much. Their midcornerspeed is weak and a 600 can't make up for that in the torque dept.

Finding the balance between braking late and getting on the gas early is what I think we are talking about here. A common error is to focus too much on the braking part of the equation. Can you see where that would be slow?

I think it helped me early on, so it might apply for others.

[Awesome]

I have no idea what point and shoot is other than what I see motards doing with no lines at all. I don't know what you're reading, but I don't think I've said anywhere that the only way to get faster is to keep braking later and later. I definitly don't see where I said that in my last topic related post. I've never said brake as hard as you ca until you reach the apex, I did however say that being 100% off the brakes before you turn in will turn the bike in slower, contradicting what was quoted by Oreo. It seems as though you just like to argue with anything that I post, and even points I'm not iterating. That's fine with me if that's your motif though it's having quiet an impact on my opinion of your character.

[a13x]

Heh. Motards... facking motards.

I like how they are good for nothing when it comes to 'learning by watching'. You can stick those bastards anywhere at anytime and it doesn't phase it. Bumps? SO WHAT. Mid-corner line change? OKAY.

Stupid things' power to weight is so high that even if they park it in a corner, they are at fullspeed within a short span. I was topped out banging off the rev limiter on Jeff's RMZ450 before I was halfway to the start/finish coming out of 12.. that's just silly.

[FireFly]

Do you guys know how long a pair of stock brakes for street riding would last if someone were to squeeze the shit out of em during a track day? Assume were talking about someone with experience, fast times, and many a track day under their belt. i.e. someone who can really tear up a track. Any thoughts/ opinions?

[Hardcore]

Originally posted by FireFly
Do you guys know how long a pair of stock brakes for street riding would last if someone were to squeeze the shit out of em during a track day? Assume were talking about someone with experience, fast times, and many a track day under their belt. i.e. someone who can really tear up a track. Any thoughts/ opinions?

here's a thought + an opinion:

get the fuck out of this thread with your pinhead assinine dumbass questions! this thread is for racers which leaves you out! so fuck off jackass!

[OreoGaborio]

here's another though + opinion... do what i'm about to go do & put "hardcore" on your NESR block list.... and don't ever click the link that says "show this user's post"

[Hardcore]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
here's another though + opinion... do what i'm about to go do & put "hardcore" on your NESR block list.... and don't ever click the link that says "show this user's post"

thank you----- + a thought for you too--- get the fuck out of the pit area you wannabe racer--you don't know shit about racing no matter how many posts you put up--now go play with your computer you geek!!!

[a13x]

Originally posted by FireFly
Do you guys know how long a pair of stock brakes for street riding would last if someone were to squeeze the shit out of em during a track day? Assume were talking about someone with experience, fast times, and many a track day under their belt. i.e. someone who can really tear up a track. Any thoughts/ opinions?

They'd last a good long while.