Formula 300?

[isaac_]

Chris is just a scrooge... someone ate his cocoa-puffs this morning.

Edit: Back to talking about 300s.

[Kurlon]

Back to talking about 300s.

How much to try your KTM for one session Thur or Friday?

[isaac_]

As long as our sessions don't coincide go for it. I'll be swapping back-and-forth with the SV.

[Kurlon]

I believe you can be busted for drug dealing handing out free crack offers like that!

[Paul_E_D]

I believe you can be busted for drug dealing handing out free crack offers like that!

It's only expensive if you inhale... or fall.

[loudbeard]

Agreed, but pulling the cat out of an exhaust on a production class bike is going to alter it's performance, even if you require the pipe be made of inconenl for weight and same ID as the rest of the system at that point. You've also altered it's cornering clearance. Net result, you've thrown the indexing out of whack.

I understand all of that, lets just look at it a bit differently. Now I do get the idea of wanting to keep the class competitive and evenly matched, but I don't see the necessity of digging into it any further than what a standard supersport bike's build constraints are. Furthermore I don't necessarily think that the governing body in our little backyard racing series has all of the resources available to make the do's and do not's entirely meaningful to the coveted Mendoza Line. It just seems a bit silly and nit picked; and in my experience if you are going to be silly and nit pickish the engineering should be there to back it up. Can you point me to the LRRS Engineering Department?

[isaac_]

It's only expensive if you inhale... or fall.

The offer stands...

[Kurlon]

In this case Grahame was the one of the drivers behind the tiering structure imposed for F300, and he actually did do quite a bit of homework prior to it going in place as well as observing how it played out in reality on track both here and in other orgs. He shared some of his thought process either on here or on FB IIRC back when this was all being fleshed out. He's got the math and data to back up the structure.

As noted earlier in the discussion, the rules set isn't locked in stone but racers would need to show that the people who will be negatively impacted (the people still on 250s, etc) are onboard with any changes before you can expect much traction. Or if all of the class A machines fade off the grid through natural attrition then expect the rules to update to reflect that new reality.

[cdovego]

Wait, my going out for the AMA Sumo as an expert 'cause I was sharing a bike with Cole and he wanted to run AM with his friends was a facade? What part of that did I fake? Was it the part where my first practice I freaked out in the front straight chicane, hit a tire and folded the brake lever around completely, then spent the rest of that practice session killing myself trying to restart the bike to get it back to Cole before his practice? Or was it the part where despite being in WAY over my head I went out there anyways, and if you check the record I did not finish dead last. 18 out of 24, right behind Adam Clark (who is a superman for riding as beat up as he was that year) and ahead of some LRRS regulars. Race 2 didn't happen as the poor YZ crapped out from being flogged by two riders at once without the benefit of any setup to help it survive sumo at all. Now, you wanna talk about balls, Colin ran AMA on a freaking KLX400, talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight. I seem to recall both of us having shit eating grins for the rest of that weekend too... or did I fake that memory?

And the MW stuff, you mean the bike in my garage with 70% leakdown on #1 is fake too? I still have no official MW goals other than possibly getting out there and trying it, the official goal for this bike is to help get past a couple mental roadblocks via practice/school time. Anything beyond that is gravy. And yeah, I'm still gutted about the engine turning out to be a dud, so... again, what's fake here? Based on this standard of facade, I'll happily accept a facade 2nd gen R6 motor to get it back to life?

You wanna try and whip on me for playing undercover referee, go for it, that's valid. But this BS about facades and faking shit, I don't think that tact is going to win you any internet points.

You and I live in two totally different worlds. It's lovely that you're happy with a participation award. It's also cute to watch you play pretend LRRS rule maker.

It's all cute, you get it big guy.

[cdovego]

Chris is just a scrooge... someone ate his cocoa-puffs this morning.

Edit: Back to talking about 300s.

I bet your mommy brings you cocoa-puffs in the mornings.

[isaac_]

Doesn't matter who brings them as long as I get them.

[BMMCBR]

Are we seriously giving one of the kindest, friendliest, go out of his way to help people guys at Loudon shit for no reason?

C'mon now, let's play nice.

[Kurlon]

Are we seriously giving one of the kindest, friendliest, go out of his way to help people guys at Loudon shit for no reason?

C'mon now, let's play nice.

Yeah, leave Richie alone, it's not his fault he's a creepy soulless ginger! (Ok, it IS his fault he's no longer at Loudon any more, give him shit for that.)

[ducatirdr]

Back to the class uniformity that F300 is hoping to bring to LRRS. I get it. I raced the EX500 class a while back. i have no issue with these rules. I just wish they were level with the CSS racing rules. That way we at LRRS could benefit from national racing if we choose. Also we could benefit from national racing experience with tuning. It saves money to just download a map rather from a known setup than to dyno a map for a one off race bike (LRRS cat removed for 2017). I also wouldn't mind using slicks instead of DOT tires. Then I could run the 110 front tires that are much lighter than the 120 DOTs. You don't use about .6 inch of the front on both sides of the 120 either. But its level so I can accept that tire restriction better than the exhaust mod restriction. It's due to the fact that we are the only ones in the country doing that and I question the parity.

I do question that the R3 with a stock exhaust makes the same bhp as a KTM 390 with a free flowing exhaust. Also the KTM is 30 lbs lighter. I wish I could lose 30 pounds on one of these bikes. (I have lost 10bs but I need to lose 67lbs to weigh the same as the current class winners body weight. LOL)

I guess if we had two bikes dyno'd on the same dyno the same day and the R3 and the RC390 were the same as LRRS suggests I would be fine with that. I like level playing fields. I just question it.

Yamaha R3 with stock vs Graves exhaust Dyno run by Graves



KTM RC390 stock vs MIVV exhaust by MNNTBX

[cdovego]

Are we seriously giving one of the kindest, friendliest, go out of his way to help people guys at Loudon shit for no reason?

C'mon now, let's play nice.

Shut it novice.

[Kurlon]

I've personally never been a fan of pre-canned maps but I can get your point there. Dyno time isn't cheap, and this class is supposed to be cheap. On the KTM vs R3, the 390 is supposed to be production class rules like your R3, so no aftermarket exhausts. The production class rule set is the one spot in the CCS/LRRS playbook that doesn't have the usual 'single cylinder blindspot' that every other set does so there shouldn't be any 390s sporting anything other than stock exhausts. If there are, protest them. (Based on the rules, the 'cup' 390 isn't technically legal as it's not sold as a street legal machine to my knowledge. If it IS legal, it's putting down less power than a street 390 while in cup trim, and should be required to stay fully in cup trim.)

Also note that the parity formula Grahame showed wasn't based on just HP, it was a power to weight ratio factor PLUS lap time comparison. Going back through last years results I'm seeing:

EX300 - 1:23
R3 - 1:23
390 - 1:24

Interestingly no expert 390s in F300 after June? So at least so far, the 390 isn't blowing up the standings, but there aren't many competing. As far as CCS, your F300 points should transfer directly as your bike is legal within CCS' class structure still, but if you do go to Daytona you will be at a HP disadvantage if you run your machine in LRRS trim, so valid gripe there. On tires, Michelin used to offer their top DOT in a super soft 110, I ran it on the front of my GS500E for the same reason. I believe Pirelli does as well but I can't confirm as I haven't put hands on one personally. I'd love to see CCS/LRRS go the same way as WERA and allow slicks in supersport but so far CCS has shown no interest and that proposal is made practically every year.

[Pittenger5]

Yeah, leave Richie alone, it's not his fault he's a creepy soulless ginger! (Ok, it IS his fault he's no longer at Loudon any more, give him shit for that.)

Find me a job that pays me enough so I can afford to move back, and Ill consider it.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Tom, we've got the Supercorsa DOT in a 110/70 front, and a 140/70 rear.

[number9]

Furthermore I don't necessarily think that the governing body in our little backyard racing series has all of the resources available to make the do's and do not's entirely meaningful to the coveted Mendoza Line.

[loudbeard]

LMGTFY

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[number9]

LMGTFY

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No, I'm a baseball nerd; I actually did understand it.

[loudbeard]

No, I'm a baseball nerd; I actually did understand it.

Whoops. I'm terrible at reading. I read "I don't understand that reference."

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[feralchimp]

Going back through last years results I'm seeing:
EX300 - 1:23
R3 - 1:23
390 - 1:24

Those are bitchin' lap times considering the power those bikes are making.

[isaac_]

I still think they can go faster.


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[Paul_E_D]

When you think you are at the limit, there are 3 seconds left in it.