I knew this would happen and The PTwins DEBATE.

[Doc]

And If I won you would cry that it wasn't fair!

[Honclfibr]

And If I won you would cry that it wasn't fair!

To the poor sportster, maybe

Hell I'd be impressed if you were able to *finish* a race on a sportster.

[Kurlon]

There were some sporties running during the vintage racing, I think they could go the distance, just dunno how they'd compete.

[Doc]

I bet they weren't stock either...

[Honclfibr]

There are a few buells at lrrs, 1200s I believe. They don't go too quick. And they break a lot. And that's a sportbike chassis.

[JMORSE133]

keep it legal and race it Doc, see ya on the grid. That is if one of the Joyce boys don't kill me first

[zx1012r]

Race it Doc!

The EX's only became the norm when they went to 17"wheels and the harleys, GS's and XS's couldn't keep up. The EX's have stayed the bike of choice because of cheap availability and parts galore.

Just like any other class, I think variety is good. I didn't think that 3 years ago when the motards started ruling LW Sportsman, but now people are trying to do so much to them that their reliability has suffered in that class. 2 EX 500's in the top 3 in the championship this year.

P-Twins racing is about racing motorcycles that are basically stock. Per the rules the 620 is legal. Micky runs his Aprilia because we all asked him to because we missed him. The class is full of people who are just as happy to see their friends do well and have fun. THAT is what P-twins racing is about!

Mark Dages

[BMFR6]

To the poor sportster, maybe

Hell I'd be impressed if you were able to *finish* a race on a sportster.

find me one, i'll race it.

[OreoGaborio]

Jane's got one

[Johnny B]

There were some sporties running during the vintage racing, I think they could go the distance, just dunno how they'd compete.

I bet they weren't stock either...

USCRA American Twins Class Rules.

INTRODUCTION:
The AMERICAN TWINS class is a spec type class, for relatively stock XL883 Evolution Sportster based Harley Davidson motorcycles built between 1986 to the present.

1) American Twins rules are designed to be simple and easy to enforce.
2) American Twin rules are designed to keep racing close, competitive, reliable, track safe and relatively inexpensive.
All general safety rules and regulations of the United States Classic Racing Association apply to the American Twins Class.
The following lists some of the general applicable rules pertaining USCRA racing motorcycles. This list is a brief guide. In order to compete in USCRA events, it is the rider's responsibility to insure that all rules and regulations for USCRA machine preparation and eligibility as per the rulebook are followed.
1. Headlights, tail lights, horns, mirrors, side stands, etc., must be removed
2. A suitable 3-quart capacity belly pan must be installed as per USCRA requirements.
3. Gas caps must be secured by either duct tape or safety wire.
4. The entire motorcycle must be properly safety wired as per USCRA rules
5. A proper oil catch bottle must be attached.
6. Oil filters must be hose clamped, and then properly safety wired securely to either the frame or
the engine.
7.All front fender rivets must be drilled out and replaced with nut secured bolts.
RULES UNIQUE TO THE AMERICAN TWINS CLASS
NO ENGINE MODIFICATIONS WILL BE ALLOWED EXCEPT AS NOTED BELOW.
Any OEM Harley Davidson parts book listed XL883 part, from any year XL883, may be used. (Example: An OEM carburetor from a 2005 XL883 may be used on a 1986 XL883 race bike.) This practice is known as "Parts Interchange". OEM ignition boxes must be used, thus limiting max RPM to 6500. Electric starters may NOT be removed and must be fully operational.

ALOWABLE MODIFICATIONS: (If its not listed below, it must remain stock.
When in doubt, check it out with the rules committee. The USCRA reserves the right to make additional rules clarifications and changes as necessary to maintain machine safety and parity)
1. VALVES and SEATS may be re-cut.
2. Exhaust systems may be changed or modified (Systems must meet current noise restrictions for NHIS.)
3. Any carburetor jetting (including commercial jet kits) and air cleaners may be used.
4. Racing handlebars or clip-on handlebars may be used.
5. Treaded tires only. (Wheels must remain OEM)
6. Sprockets and chains may replace belt drive systems.
7. Sprocket spacers may be used if needed for tire clearance.
8. Any brake pads, brake lines, and brake fluid may be used.
9. OEM disks may be drilled for cooling.
10. A second front disk may be added by using OEM parts only.
11. OEM foot pegs may be altered or NON-OEM REAR SET ASSEMBLIES MAY BE ADDED.
12. Seats must be OEM based. Seats may be cut down or re-shaped.
13. Fork braces may be added.
14. Non-OEM Fork springs / oils may be added or changed.
15. Rear shocks, including length may be changed. (Mounting points must remain stock.)
16. Non-OEM oil filters and lubricants may be used
17. PORTING OF THE INLET TRACT MAY NOT BE MODIFIED, ALTERED OR CLEANED UP.

PLEASE NOTE: TO INSURE MACHINE ELIGIBILITY ON ANY AMERICAN TWINS ENTERED MACHINE, THE USCRA MAY AT ANY TIME REQUIRE AN ENTRANT TO DEMONSTRATE PISTON AND CAM COMPLIENCE.

The P-Twins Class

This class enjoys it's popularity because it's dirt cheap. It also grew because people who wanted to give it a try without buying the equipment could rent a Penguin School bike and see if they liked it. They usually got hooked. When Penguin went from Kawasaki to Ducati sponsorship, there were a few people concerned that they wouldn't be able to go the rent-a-racer route anymore. Hell, Ewe the cornerworker has raced nothing but a rental bike for as long as I've known him. Damn near had his name painted on the fairing of "his" Penguin EX500.
So the rules were tweaked a little in order to enable the curious to rent one of the school's Duc 620's to race. I wouldn't worry about them taking over the field, the Kaws have attained cult status among the Mafia. They'll continue to maintain those things indefinitely, almost like they're vintage shit.

[kermita]

Jane's got one

Uh....I'll ask....got one what?

A 620? Someone going racing next season???

[BMFR6]

Uh....I'll ask....got one what?

A 620? Someone going racing next season???

a sportster. i want to race one.

[zx1012r]

Johnny! I see they still mount the steering damper to the cylinder head! That is some funny stuff right there!

When I was pit crewing for Jim Leslie and Aaron Yates they used to go pretty quick around Loudon on the Maroney's harleys in dem days! The limiting factor now would be the tires.

Ok, I'm over-doing my posts per day average on the internet today. Gotta get the kids in bed. If they'll sleep after watching "Goosebumps" on Cartoon Network!

[Honclfibr]

The P-Twins Class

This class enjoys it's popularity because it's dirt cheap. It also grew because people who wanted to give it a try without buying the equipment could rent a Penguin School bike and see if they liked it. They usually got hooked. When Penguin went from Kawasaki to Ducati sponsorship, there were a few people concerned that they wouldn't be able to go the rent-a-racer route anymore. Hell, Ewe the cornerworker has raced nothing but a rental bike for as long as I've known him. Damn near had his name painted on the fairing of "his" Penguin EX500.
So the rules were tweaked a little in order to enable the curious to rent one of the school's Duc 620's to race. I wouldn't worry about them taking over the field, the Kaws have attained cult status among the Mafia. They'll continue to maintain those things indefinitely, almost like they're vintage shit.

Interesting. Does the penguin school even rent 620s? I've never seen a rental on the track. Just the 900SS rolling road blocks in lightweight supersport.

[Honclfibr]

Huh, so the harley sponsor is a bus company. How fitting. I bet Oxx could take the school bus out and give them a run for their money on the track

[Johnny B]

Interesting. Does the penguin school even rent 620s? I've never seen a rental on the track. Just the 900SS rolling road blocks in lightweight supersport.

I don't keep really good track of what they're running lately, but the first year I would say they had 620's.

[BMFR6]

Huh, so the harley sponsor is a bus company. How fitting. I bet Oxx could take the school bus out and give them a run for their money on the track

thats bruce transportation. ever seen the full spread at the track? they have like 3-4 kids running various bikes, mostly 2 strokes. the bus kids.

[Honclfibr]

thats bruce transportation. ever seen the full spread at the track? they have like 3-4 kids running various bikes, mostly 2 strokes. the bus kids.

Heh, yeah, I know bruce transportation sponsors the 125 racers. Kinda funny, they sponsor the lightweight race-focused 125s and the washing machines on wheels too. Guess they've covered both ends of the spectrum

[Doc]

Hey isn't the 125 a spec class??..

[Kurlon]

Actually, it isn't.

The new KTM street singles would be allowed in the 125GP class for example.

[Doc]

I am getting ALOT of good info form the NEAR list and it seems MANY of the EX mafia do not mind the 620 at all...

From the NEAR list.
"The 620s were allowed in PTwins a few years ago. I believe Jeff Wood and someone else did some test laps with an EX and a 620. The conclusion was that were close to the same lap times .
Since that time Ive raced against a couple of them, There was a guy named Jim Blackwood or Blackburn who ran a 620 sport. it was for sale near the Checkered Flag the last race weekend. The Sport was about the same speed down the straights. I watched Micky run his and turn about the same times as he did on the EX. This year Ive raced against Bill Omerod in a few different classes and the bikes were nearly the same. Sometimes I would win sometimes he would.
My experience is the 620 is not a PTwins Class killer in stock form.

Back when it was originally put in front the "Mafia" to let the 620 in PTwins, I remember nearly everyone welcoming the challenge with open arms.
The cost of the Duc, I think, will keep their numbers down. But I have heard rumor of another good rider, with access to cheap parts, tossing the idea of running a Monster in the PT class. Should make for an interesting year if we get more riders on Ducs.
My 2cents
DD
413"

[s a x m a n]

Actually, it isn't.

The new KTM street singles would be allowed in the 125GP class for example.

125 GRAND PRIX (Novice Amateur and Expert divisions)
Two stroke, single cylinder, up to 125cc
At LRRS 4 stroke single cylinder GP machines of unlimited displacement are
allowed. Motard machines are barred from this class.


125GP is for 125GP bikes ... i'm almost positive they will not allow any other bike to run in that class

[Kurlon]

At LRRS 4 stroke single cylinder GP machines of unlimited displacement are
allowed. Motard machines are barred from this class.

125GP is for 125GP bikes ... i'm almost positive they will not allow any other bike to run in that class

I guess the question is, how do you define 'motard'? I wouldn't call the 690 Duke a motard myself. Or, if I suddenly was gifted with a large sack of cash, what if I took a CRF450R, mounted a 600 front end on it, a longer rear shock, and wrapped it in 250GP plastic... is it still a motard? (I so want to build one of those...)

[Honclfibr]

See, this is what I want to avoid.

I think there should be classes for tinkerers and classes for those who want to race basic machines against like machines without having to spend money and time on our bikes to keep up with the Jones's.

Racing is fun. I'm sure squeezing every dime of performance out of bikes and agonizing over the finer points of the rulebook in order to make them competitive against other bikes that they weren't designed to be is fun too. But that's not what I personally want to do with my summers.

[Kurlon]

I agree, there should be spec classes, and there should be 'anything goes' classes. Just make sure each is clearly defined as to what it is. I can min-max tech rules all day long, thats why for my debut on a full sized machine I'm sticking to a fairly restrictive class, so I don't have room to play.