When should you start giving advice?

[a13x]

you are never gonna let down that whole drop technique thing at plattekill are you!
alex: how are you doing that drop, how fast do you go
me: I'm slowing down a ton and not pulling up at all off the edge
alex: hmm, ok cool

*proceeds to cartwheel over the front wheel in one of the most AWESOME wrecks I've ever seen.
I apologized for that one many times and stand by my "I went slow and floated off the ledge"

God I forgot about the Plattekill wreck. That was ALL YOUR FAULT. Fuck I bailed in front of a few hundred people... great. Good thing this computer doesn't have those pics on it or I'd be forced to post them up. That fucking hurt so bad. (imagine falling off a 8' wall onto your head, in rocks)

[Cerberus]

I am talking specifically motorcyle riding type stuff.

How long should you be riding before you should give advice? When would you listen to someone giving you advice? What would make a good advice giver?

How long should you be riding a track before you give specific advice about a corner or the track? I am not talking general stuff but specifics. The type of stuff that Ken Condon teaches in his book. Lets call it intermediate techniques.

I know anyone can give an opinion on a technique but when is it ok to come across as a subject matter expert?

Example. If you have 2 trackdays under your belt and have only been riding for about 4 years should you be giving advice to others about the track at a trackday? Would you?

I would only offer advice to someone who i thought was likely less experienced than myself, and probably only then after mentioning my experience level so they can take or leave my input based on my stated history

[obsolete]

Again I am guilty of...

The only thing you're guilty of here is beating around the bush like a blind man at a gang bang.

[catamount]

The only thing you're guilty of here is beating around the bush like a blind man at a gang bang.

+1

[butcher bergs]

Doc so good he gives advice in his sleep.

[kbroderick]

The way this thread is going, he's gonna have to name the Moto Business Venture "As the Sprocket Turns"...

I think it was Ienatsch in Sport Riding Techniques who suggested that you'll get advice from all sorts of people at the track, and that you should take notes if they have a single-digit number plate...and thank them politely while letting it all flow out the other ear otherwise. I happen to disagree, but I've been on teh intraweb long enough that I feel capable of sorting good advice from bad.

And I don't think you have to be an expert to provide good advice. Ski schools usually look for solid skiers who can handle the whole mountain and then for people who can actually (a) understand and (b) teach skiing. True experts are not always the best teachers, and I've actually heard a couple of times that decent, harder-working ski racers often make better coaches than truly excellent, naturally-talented racers--the mediocre racers have to think about what they're doing, and they understand the techniques; the naturally-talented types sometimes do things so automatically that they don't consciously understand what they're doing. It's not always the case, and the best of the best probably have a good understanding of the techniques as well as a high level of natural talent, but I'd expect that the same theory would apply to motorcycling.

[CEO]

The only thing you're guilty of here is beating around the bush like a blind man at a gang bang.

Yeah doc, out with it, you big pansy

[Pittenger5]

The problem with advice is theres tons of differing degrees that can make a difference as to who you ask, and who can give valid advice. If a track day guy with 2 track days is behind me in 3, and comes off the session and says, I was really gaining on you on the brakes there, I think youre braking too much. Is that bad advice? Of course not, maybe you go out and try braking later. Am I going to listen to the same guy about the proper line and body position? Probably not, but it doesnt make it impossible that he could give me some good pointers.

[TheIglu]

Correct me if I am wrong but I think all the Experts are faster than all the Novices. (Same bike)

Nope.

[Doc]

The problem with advice is theres tons of differing degrees that can make a difference as to who you ask, and who can give valid advice. If a track day guy with 2 track days is behind me in 3, and comes off the session and says, I was really gaining on you on the brakes there, I think youre braking too much. Is that bad advice? Of course not, maybe you go out and try braking later. Am I going to listen to the same guy about the proper line and body position? Probably not, but it doesnt make it impossible that he could give me some good pointers.

I think an OPINION is different than ADVICE.

[Doc]

Nope.

I stand corrected.

[Pittenger5]

I think an OPINION is different than ADVICE.

You say tomato I say Matt.

[TheIglu]

Correct knowledge is best attained via any available source, be that one full of it or one with just a few morsels.

[Doc]

Very good discussion. Thanks fellas.

[jcbell1007]

I personally, was asking a ton of questions when I was at the track earlier this week. I'm surprised that no one told me to go fuck off sometimes. I'm very appreciative of that.

Here's what I did though. I got input from a bunch of people which showed my weak areas on the track. Then went to the instructors/control riders and got all I could from them for actual riding tips/advise/etc... I based who I got my tips/advise from on their track/racing experience and what I knew it to be.

When I talked with others who asked me questions, or during conversations, I just related things that were working for me at the time. How I was positioning my body, where my entry points were, where I did my gear changes etc.. Most of what I was saying was just repeating things that I had gotten from the instructors.

I would be the first to admit that I have limited knowledge of the track/racing etc... I wouldn't expect nor would I want anyone that I talked to, to think that I was trying to coach or instruct them because I don't want to mess them up.

[The Crashing Tomato]

Jason WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ALL ABOUT YOU

[legalspeed]

Why do you ask?

[The Crashing Tomato]

Cuz it Doc ... Duhhhh

[jcbell1007]

Jason WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ALL ABOUT YOU

sorry, I was trying to be insightful with my noob experiences.

i'll try to be a little less self-centered in my posts from now on.

[Doc]

See what ya did there Tomato!? You upset the boy!

Now apologize or no dinner for you!

[The Crashing Tomato]

sorry, I was trying to be insightful with my noob experiences.

i'll try to be a little less self-centered in my posts from now on.

See what ya did there Tomato!? You upset the boy!

Now apologize or no dinner for you!

I sorry Ja ... me herd this on Dr. Phil and it sound guud to use heer.

The upper should have been followed by some sort of or to show that I had no real reason to yell it was for dramatic effect and boy did i get DRAMA