When should you start giving advice?

[The Crashing Tomato]

I think the guy Doc is talking about went WAYYYYY over that line Chris.

Matter of fact I think he's soooo deep in the T9 swamp he found Denno's footpeg from last season when he was still a novice.

[obsolete]

That being said pretty much any racer, novice through expert, has had the experience and skills to advise a street rider or track day rider, except for a couple really quick TD guys, on general techniques, lines, strong/weak points, etc... IMO.

I would have to disagree there. There a more than a few people that come into racing pretty green that are faster than people that have been racing for a long time. A racer may have more knowledge on the racing aspect but not in general on riding and being faster .

[Jaynnus]

Matter of fact I think he's soooo deep in the T9 swamp he found Denno's footpeg from last season when he was still a novice.

[JRide]

Good discussion!

Its a tough place to be in when people ask for advice. For me, personally, I will try and answer the question if someone asks me. I will not answer the question if I don't know. That is where people get in trouble and start to sound ignorant. Its much easier to say "I don't know" and find out the answer or turn it over to someone more knowledgeable.

On the other hand I will listen to anyone's advice. You never know where you will find some good advice. Of course you have to filter out some of the BS that comes along with it. Haha. I've definitely learned from both riders faster and slower then myself.

[a13x]

That being said pretty much any racer, novice through expert, has had the experience and skills to advise a street rider or track day rider,

Wow. I disagree with this 100%.

[CEO]

Fair enough. Your opinion..

edit: This is in the pit area alex, you do know I was talking about track riding right? You don't think any racer can give a track day guy running 1:50's a couple pointers?

["Dangerous" Dan K]

couple things.

1) a couple track day riders handed us NV ptwins racers our asses on a plate this weekend, doing 1:26-1:28 on ptwin EX's. Before these guys Harrison was NV fast doing 1:31's.

2) CEO gave me the best advice ever. Then I listened and now I'm "dangerous" and a dirty racer. bunched undergarments and whatnot.

[Doc]

I would have to disagree there. There a more than a few people that come into racing pretty green that are faster than people that have been racing for a long time. A racer may have more knowledge on the racing aspect but not in general on riding and being faster .

Correct me if I am wrong but I think all the Experts are faster than all the Novices. (Same bike)

[CEO]

CEO gave me the best advice ever. Then I listened and now I'm "dangerous" and a dirty racer. bunched undergarments and whatnot.

Hey now, I told you not to back off or back down (something I sometimes still screw up, not making passes I should have made, or getting casual on the brakes, etc... track day mentality)... I did not tell you to go T-bone Kurlon

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Hey now, I told you not to back off or back down (something I sometimes still screw up, not making passes I should have made, or getting casual on the brakes, etc... track day mentality)... I did not tell you to go T-bone Kurlon

"This is motorcycle racing, not a knitting competition. Don't you EVER back down!"

I didn't back down.

[Jaynnus]

Maybe the better question is....

When should you stop giving advise?

[DerekSBelanger]

Maybe the better question is....

When should you stop giving advise?

[a13x]

edit: This is in the pit area alex, you do know I was talking about track riding right? You don't think any racer can give a track day guy running 1:50's a couple pointers?

To a degree like 'be smooth' or 'relax'

Past that I hear a whole lot of advice being given by racers, control riders, and other 'qualified folks' that makes me cringe sometimes. Just because you can ride the track (or ride xyz fast laptime) doesn't mean you know how to do it, or how to tell someone else how to do it. I'm sure the myraid of MSF Instructors on the board would back this up when it comes to teaching someone how to ride on the street. Just cause you can ride on the street and operate a bike doesn't make your a MSF Coach does it?

I'm not saying I'm exempt from this myself. No one is. Personally I'm asked riding questions many times that I may not have the exact answer on and I either 1) make this very clear or 2) send them to someone who does.

Since my first lap on the track until today I still only go to a very very small group of people for serious advice and teaching. Obsolete nailed it earlier, it's ultimately up to the Asker of Advice to choose who they ask for help and the quality of the information given back.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Since my first lap on the track until today I still only go to a very very small group of people for serious advice and teaching. Obsolete nailed it earlier, it's ultimately up to the Asker of Advice to choose who they ask for help and the quality of the information given back.

+1 100%. I get advice all over, being a newb. Some from people quite a bit slower than my slow novice ass. I am pretty picky who I listen to, and about what. That said, Alex here is on my "shut the fuck up and listen carefully, take notes when you get back to your tramper" list. That's a short list.

[CEO]

I guess. I feel like I have helped some slower riders of varying skill levels by giving them good advice and seen them have immediate improvement

Maybe it's all in the language/delivery/etc...

ultimately up to the Asker of Advice to choose who they ask for help and the quality of the information given back

Def still agree with this 100%

[seth399]

I have a long list of people who I listen to talk and let it go out the other ear. They don't know but I'm usually just playing scenes from RAD over in my head while they talk. As mentioned, I have a short list of people where I pay more attention to. Lastly, if you take bad advice and run with it...then that is your fault and you need to learn from your own self being stupid (also as mentioned in other words).

[Doc]

I agree with Alex. It is up to the ASKER.

What I an getting at is the GIVERS. Those people that BELIEVE they are qualified to GIVE advice when there are those around them more qualified.

Just bugs me (and a few other people).

Again I am guilty of it but I like to think I don't overstep my bounds and the advice comes with a disclaimer. "I am by no means an expert but maybe try this, it SEEMS to work for me".

Then I get faster and it isn't working and I go ask Gino WTF I am doing wrong? He then says "Brake later, Gas sooner" Best advice I continue to recieve.

[CEO]

I have a long list of people who I listen to talk and let it go out the other ear. They don't know but I'm usually just playing scenes from RAD over in my head while they talk.

+1 LOL if some guys only knew the shit going through my head when they're trying to tell me how to ride

["Dangerous" Dan K]

I guess. I feel like I have helped some slower riders of varying skill levels by giving them good advice and seen them have immediate improvement

Maybe it's all in the language/delivery/etc...

Def still agree with this 100%

You def. helped me quite a bit in a few words. I think it may have to do with delivery & wording, and maybe attitude? I took what you said to heart, even though you are fairly new. To me, being as fast as you and as new as you is no joke... you must still remember starting off (since it was like yesterday) but you're damn fast now, and in a tough class at that. You're on the same short list mentioned above.

[Doc]

I have a long list of people who I listen to talk and let it go out the other ear. They don't know but I'm usually just playing scenes from RAD over in my head while they talk. As mentioned, I have a short list of people where I pay more attention to. Lastly, if you take bad advice and run with it...then that is your fault and you need to learn from your own self being stupid (also as mentioned in other words).

I always thought you were just daydreaming about me naked...while not listening to me

Wait... I have never tried to give you advice, that would be helping you beat me

I didn't even look and thought that was Richie not Seth!

(Considering Seth is now faster than me)

[seth399]

I always thought you were just daydreaming about me naked...while not listening to me

Wait... I have never tried to give you advice, that woud be helping you beat me

you know you secretly want a motard

[a13x]

I feel like I have helped some slower riders of varying skill levels by giving them good advice and seen them have immediate improvement

I have no doubt of this

I have a long list of people who I listen to talk and let it go out the other ear. They don't know but I'm usually just playing scenes from RAD over in my head while they talk. As mentioned, I have a short list of people where I pay more attention to. Lastly, if you take bad advice and run with it...then that is your fault and you need to learn from your own self being stupid (also as mentioned in other words).

Alex: Seth, I'm having trouble doing suicide no-hander, what do you do?
Seth: I dunno, I just take off and let go of the bars.
Alex: Yea okay

*Alex proceeds to launch off jump and pile himself*

[seth399]

I have no doubt of this



Alex: Seth, I'm having trouble doing suicide no-hander, what do you do?
Seth: I dunno, I just take off and let go of the bars.
Alex: Yea okay

*Alex proceeds to launch off jump and pile himself*

you are never gonna let down that whole drop technique thing at plattekill are you!
alex: how are you doing that drop, how fast do you go
me: I'm slowing down a ton and not pulling up at all off the edge
alex: hmm, ok cool

*proceeds to cartwheel over the front wheel in one of the most AWESOME wrecks I've ever seen.
I apologized for that one many times and stand by my "I went slow and floated off the ledge"

[CEO]

You def. helped me quite a bit in a few words. I think it may have to do with delivery & wording, and maybe attitude? I took what you said to heart, even though you are fairly new. To me, being as fast as you and as new as you is no joke... you must still remember starting off (since it was like yesterday) but you're damn fast now, and in a tough class at that. You're on the same short list mentioned above.

I do remember starting off. Before my R6 got bent out of shape, literally

And glad to help... now I need someone to help ME get my head back in the game since the bike is straightened out

Considering the penguin advanced school before the next race weekend actually... it's time for teens

["Dangerous" Dan K]

I do remember starting off. Before my R6 got bent out of shape, literally

And glad to help... now I need someone to help ME get my head back in the game since the bike is straightened out

Considering the penguin advanced school before the next race weekend actually... it's time for teens

No problem dude, I got you covered. Advice city right here...

Find someone that's the equivilent to CEO vs me or Alex vs me, or BJ vs me, but with me being you and the faster/better riders adjusted accordingly. Ask questions. Listen carefully, take notes. Do what they say.

You're welcome pal. Anytime. Glad to help.