When should you start giving advice?

[Doc]

I am talking specifically motorcyle riding type stuff.

How long should you be riding before you should give advice? When would you listen to someone giving you advice? What would make a good advice giver?

How long should you be riding a track before you give specific advice about a corner or the track? I am not talking general stuff but specifics. The type of stuff that Ken Condon teaches in his book. Lets call it intermediate techniques.

I know anyone can give an opinion on a technique but when is it ok to come across as a subject matter expert?

Example. If you have 2 trackdays under your belt and have only been riding for about 4 years should you be giving advice to others about the track at a trackday? Would you?

[obsolete]

Everyone gives opinions, it's the listener that determines if someone is an expert.

[BMFR6]

i don't think time plays a factor at all. case in point, Ryan. didn't he start racing like 5 minutes after buying his first streetbike, then bump to expert 10 minutes after that? i think he is more than qualified to give advice about getting around the track.

[The Crashing Tomato]

Just because someone give thier opinion doesn't mean the audience is going to listen.

Don't believe there is a right of passage like a bar mitz pha, on opinion giving.

take each person with a grain of salt.....

if you believe in yourself then you can talk the talk ... but when it comes time to walk the walk is where your credability lifts you or crushes you

there are do'ers and there are tell'ers not everyone can be both

hmmmmm any other nuggets of wisdom i an advise you on.

[Doc]

Everyone gives opinions, it's the listener that determines if someone is an expert.

Opinions are fine... When it comes across as "gospel" is what I am worried about.

Any advice I give at the track is either to friends (who take it with a grain of salt) or to people slower than me and it is usually prefaced by "I am no expert but..."

Advice I give to students is usually along the lines of, "What do you think would work?" and then we get into the how's and why's.

[Doc]

i don't think time plays a factor at all. case in point, Ryan. didn't he start racing like 5 minutes after buying his first streetbike, then bump to expert 10 minutes after that? i think he is more than qualified to give advice about getting around the track.

Point taken. What makes him qualified? Is it because he can get around the track faster than us? Is he a good "instructor"?

[Doc]

if you believe in yourself then you can talk the talk ... but when it comes time to walk the walk is where your credability lifts you or crushes you

there are do'ers and there are tell'ers not everyone can be both

NICE!

So if you are slower than me you shouldn't be trying to give me advice? Even if you have read alot of books?

[ultraTwist]

i don't think time plays a factor at all. case in point, Ryan. didn't he start racing like 5 minutes after buying his first streetbike, then bump to expert 10 minutes after that? i think he is more than qualified to give advice about getting around the track.

Naturals are the last people you want to take advice from, just saying.

[The Crashing Tomato]

Take PK for example He is one fast MOFO on the track but he is soooo funny when he talks that you may find it hard to believe everything he says about getting around the track.

take Gino in contrast .... nuff said

take Ken in contrast to them

[DerekSBelanger]

Advice I give to students is usually along the lines of, "What do you think would work?" and then we get into the how's and why's.

Sounds perfect to me. Wish I could find this kind of help.

[Doc]

Sounds perfect to me. Wish I could find this kind of help.

Ask Ken Condon.

My motorcycle students are NOOBS in the MSF Most of em either think I am a god or they think they know it all already. It pays to use the soft sell.

My students that I teach medical stuff too are also new and know that I know more than them simply because I am the designated instructor for the class, not some yahoo they just met and don't know the credentials for.

Good discussion.

[The Crashing Tomato]

DOC what makes any one an expert at anything?

some say Trump is a genius. No he isn't he's a bull in a china shop that happens to have a team of people that know when to protect his sorry ass. His book ..... HA ha

we all have a different set of guidelines as to what makes an expert of some given process or task. I never made it to the pros in Hockey but I competed against them and was able to perform as good as them ..... I cant say I am an expert / pro but am I good enough to teach hockey ? it all depends on my audience. I could see the "how do you do this ... ? can be answered 17 different ways. why is your answer more right than mine? because it worked for the audience you were speaking to.

[Doc]

DOC what makes any one an expert at anything?

some say Trump is a genius. No he isn't he's a bull in a china shop that happens to have a team of people that know when to protect his sorry ass. His book ..... HA ha

we all have a different set of guidelines as to what makes an expert of some given process or task. I never made it to the pros in Hockey but I competed against them and was able to perform as good as them ..... I cant say I am an expert / pro but am I good enough to teach hockey ? it all depends on my audience. I could see the "how do you do this ... ? can be answered 17 different ways. why is your answer more right than mine? because it worked for the audience you were speaking to.

I would say you are good enough to give advice on Hawkey ( ). Being an instructor is a little different but knowing YOU I think you would make a fine instructor. I agree that your audience plays a huge role. Are you teaching to Pee Wees or Guys looking to get into the pros. Are you just giving a tip or are you coming across as an NHL All Star?

It all plays a role as you say. I am just trying to bring some points to light.

[seth399]

some people are fast, some are slow. Some people can give advice, some can't teach others what they can do worth a shit. There is no timeline I think you can adhere to in answering this question. Its not a clear question/answer such as:
dude- "How big are jenna jamesons tits?"
me- "Don't quote me but I believe they are 34DD"

There is a clear answer to that question, not sure if I am right though

[Kitt]

2 rules...

1. When you are asked.
2. When you feel like you can give what you KNOW is the best advice.

[The Crashing Tomato]

Try a different approach with each person you deal with. If you are able advise that person to achieve thier goal then you ARE thier expert.

you musta had some frustrating moments in the last class you taught? no?

[Kitt]

I never made it to the pros in Hockey but I competed against them and was able to perform as good as them ..... I cant say I am an expert / pro but am I good enough to teach hockey ? it all depends on my audience. I could see the "how do you do this ... ? can be answered 17 different ways. why is your answer more right than mine? because it worked for the audience you were speaking to.

You're a GOON!

only 364 more days 'til tryouts! BIZZZZZATCH

P.S. I was at picadilly pub, next door to the rink yest.

[Doc]

Try a different approach with each person you deal with. If you are able advise that person to achieve thier goal then you ARE the expert.

you musta had some frustrating moments in the last class you taught? no?

This really has nothing to do about me.

[Doc]

2 rules...

1. When you are asked.
2. When you feel like you can give what you KNOW is the best advice.

I like the first one.

I can FEEL that it is the best advice, I can THINK I KNOW the best advice. But what puts me in the position to give the advice? If I have less experience than those around me should I be opening my big mouth?

[The Crashing Tomato]

awwwww That's it Kitt .... your goin down ..... See you at try-outs

Sure it isn't DOC it because of a friend you have .....riiiiiight?

[The Crashing Tomato]

I can FEEL that it is the best advice, I can THINK I KNOW the best advice. But what puts me in the position to give the advice?

being asked or taking a job as an MSF instructor orrrrr thinking you have better info than what the person asking has currently

If I have less experience than those around me should I be opening my big mouth? all depends on how fast you want to make an ass of yourself

[Jaynnus]

You should give advice when your humble enough to say 'well, for me, I find that this works best.....'

[DerekSBelanger]

Ask Ken Condon.

I've done 12 trackdays with Ken Have no doubt, he is awesome. Still, there is something (alot) missing. Could be my lack of brains and tallent. I'm just not sure.

Good discussion.

Yeah, this was a great question! Thanks for bringing it up, Doc!

[Doc]

You should give advice when your humble enough to say 'well, for me, I find that this works best.....'

[obsolete]

I think Doc is just looking for validation for when he can tell people to shut up.