Thursday/Friday camping/practice and fees

[obsolete]

They could make it free and there wouldn't be an increase in spectators.

I know I'd go more if it were free.

If Carla and i go for a ride on a Saturday and want to stop by it's $50.

[JettaJayGLS]

I know I'd go more if it were free.

If Carla and i go for a ride on a Saturday and want to stop by it's $50.

Really? My friends said they got in for $15 bucks on Sunday. Isn't it $25 for access to both Saturday and Sunday combined? To come to think of it, I've never been up and spectated on a Saturday, only Sunday.

[CBR929RE]

yes $15. or $10 if you find one of the discount coupons. there Alex now you and Carla have no excuse

[The Snowman]

Last year, they offered a Saturday only infield pass for $15 as well. I just looked at the NHMS site and it lists the Sunday ticket, but not a Saturday only. However, there is an asterisk next to thew Weekend infield pricing. (with no reference that I found on that page)

[Awesome]

well considering the LRRS customer is the racer and not a spectator then really its a very difficult position for NHMS to be in. People bitch about safety so they raise prices on amenities to get the money to make the make improvements and people still bitch. Its kind of a no win situation for them because people would rather bitch than see the positives.


I'd like to know from people who have done races at other venues what the spectator turnout was.

You're talking to one, and the turnout is generally larger.

People bitch and your opinion is 'just pay it'. There's another option, it's don't pay it if it's not worth it, that's the option that myself and apparently a lot of other people have taken. That's why the track is empty, and these exact issues are stemming discussion.

How many people do you hear of not racing because Loudon is 'unsafe', and how many don't because the cost is out of control and steadily rising year after year with no rising return.

[obsolete]

I don't know about the Saturday only ticket, I can only speak to their listed prices. I don't know about last year as I had no time to go but the year prior I know I didn't go a couple times because I was free Saturday and not Sunday and $25 wasn't worth it for 1 day.

[CBR929RE]

You're talking to one, and the turnout is generally larger.

People bitch and your opinion is 'just pay it'. There's another option, it's don't pay it if it's not worth it, that's the option that myself and apparently a lot of other people have taken. That's why the track is empty, and these exact issues are stemming discussion.

How many people do you hear of not racing because Loudon is 'unsafe', and how many don't because the cost is out of control and steadily rising year after year with no rising return.

I hear what you're saying. I know people are feeling like they are getting nickel and dimed but it seems this is the case everywhere. NJMP there's camping fees, electrical fees, garage fees AND you need to get one of those track credential things just to get into the track. you wanna talk about bogus shit that last one is it. I understand they say its from their insurer but its just another stupid hoop to jump through. It doesn't cost any money, just a hassle. and yes I will do it later this year just for a couple track days.

and people were speaking with their wallets before this thursday camping fee was started by not going. that's why there aren't many thursday practices anymore.

[csmutty]

You're talking to one, and the turnout is generally larger.

People bitch and your opinion is 'just pay it'. There's another option, it's don't pay it if it's not worth it, that's the option that myself and apparently a lot of other people have taken. That's why the track is empty, and these exact issues are stemming discussion.

How many people do you hear of not racing because Loudon is 'unsafe', and how many don't because the cost is out of control and steadily rising year after year with no rising return.

What would be even better is if we heard the opinion of racers. You don't race and haven't taken your business elsewhere...so I don't know where you have a leg to stand on.

Racing is expensive. It is not going to be cheaper anywhere else. If Bergs says that it is cheaper to get a few guys going to the track and save on gas, well I can do that for NH and make it even cheaper than it currently is too (which will still be cheaper than VIR, Bogie, etc.) If spectating is free the venue wouldn't make ANY money...so that doesn't make sense. Unless you guys are going to buy $30 of stuff from the smoke shack to substitute for admission.

And as for the grids being empty...have you looked around at the economy lately? The grids have been empty for a while...ever since the economy tanked. I would say that the grids looked to be the same size as last year and the rookie race was actually pretty decent sized as well as the novice classes. My expert grids were packed with some going into the 5th row. So as for the new rules keeping new people from joining and tossing some old ones to the wayside; Bergs is the only one I know of who has taken this action. All the rest put on their big girl panties and realized this is an expensive sport and the venue closest to us is trying to make positive changes in safety and customer enjoyment. For example, this year we now have a rotating schedule for sunday so that the same people don't always have the last race. If you have any other suggestions, or anyone does for that matter, then speak up and tell the people who are making the decisions. They have proved again and again that their ears are open and they are listening to what you have to say. I mean they even implemented a card to take care of such a pithy complaint as to wearing a wrist band. If they will take care of a small problem like that, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to suggest anything to them without expecting a result (if your comment is within reason).

[Awesome]

What would be even better is if we heard the opinion of racers. You don't race and haven't taken your business elsewhere...so I don't know where you have a leg to stand on.

I don't race this year, I didn't race last year. I have more years and races under my belt at LRRS than you do, so maybe you don't have a leg to stand on since you haven't been around long enough.

[csmutty]

I don't race this year, I didn't race last year. I have more years and races under my belt at LRRS than you do, so maybe you don't have a leg to stand on since you haven't been around long enough.

And that matters how? Oh yeah...it doesn't. You are like 3 week old milk...expired. A good comparison is you are a network security professional who hasn't received any training in 2 years. You have been out of the loop and aren't aware of the new costs to race not only at Loudon, but anywhere.

Please inform me how my opinion is invalid. I have seen what the track is doing and have plenty of people surrounding me at the track who have been at the track longer than you have including my "track father". I have heard about the LRRS of yore and have seen the improvements that they continue to bring to the track. If all you have to complain about is a 10 or 20 dollars that you will never spend anyways, I have yet to see your point sir.

Good day.

[Awesome]

And that matters how? Oh yeah...it doesn't. You are like 3 week old milk...expired.

Please inform me how my opinion is invalid. I have seen what the track is doing and have plenty of people surrounding me at the track who have been at the track longer than you have including my "track father". I have heard about the LRRS of yore and have seen the improvements that they continue to bring to the track. If all you have to complain about is a 10 or 20 dollars that you will never spend anyways, I have yet to see your point sir.

Good day.

That's my 'leg to stand on'. I've put in my time and money racing. I have the money to continue to, I have the time to, and I have the capabilities.

I'm not even close to expired, and you're still sucking of your mother tit. Tell me, who pays the bills on all these fees that don't matter? Or is it you just don't know the value of a dollar because you don't have to earn them.

[CBR929RE]

can we keep this shit civil at least.

[csmutty]

That's my 'leg to stand on'. I've put in my time and money racing. I have the money to continue to, I have the time to, and I have the capabilities.

Then why don't you do so instead of just complaining about things that do not apply to you? Go race at another track. Prove me wrong.

I pay for everything related to racing if you really want to get into that, and I work my ass off for it. If you have to bring my personal finances into your argument because your point is weak, so be it.

[Awesome]

Then why don't you do so instead of just complaining about things that do not apply to you? Go race at another track. Prove me wrong.

I pay for everything related to racing if you really want to get into that, and I work my ass off for it. If you have to bring my personal finances into your argument because your point is weak, so be it.

Then maybe you need to go back to school and learn reading comprehension. Every point I made in the fucking thread is why I don't. You're tough and smart enough to jump on me and say I don't know what I'm talking about. I am the exact situation that this thread is talking about.

[Awesome]

Well apparently changing your oil was too expensive to do even back in the day.

Let's keep it out in the open and away from private messages, especially if you want to talk shit.

I sell you a bike that runs just fine, you fuck it up on ride 1, and I'm nice enough to GIVE you money back to have it fixed. Now you're going to talk shit about it? Are you sure you're 21 and not fucking 10? God, I'd like to see the balls from half this fucking message board come out face to face.

[TheIglu]

Flyers don't work like a magic bullet.

Motorcycle racing for amateurs is a lot like open mic nights. If you like open mics, or participate, it is fun. Otherwise it blows.

Spectators aren't an answer financially. "Spreading the word" helps, but there is a limited amount of people who will drive up to see racing. It is less about the cost, more about a nice day that you could either watch people ride, or go riding yourself.

I thought I'd be up there all the time once I stopped racing. Then I get on the bike on a nice Saturday morning and think to myself "Do I really want to ride up through Concord to watch everyone else have fun or do I want to go hit some nice twisties?"

Friends/Family spectating is what there is a real potential for and that's pretty much it. Sure, some other people will stop by, but that isn't the core group of spectators and won't change the finances for the racers.

I'm not going to get into the costs and the new costs. I stopped racing because it wasn't worth it financially for how much fun I had. Take that for what it is worth. If it was cheaper, I'd still be doing it.

[KB]

Wow what a shit show!

KB

[Pittenger5]

Smutty, I think you're missing the point completely. Ex-racers ARE the leg that should be stood on. They're EX-racers for a reason. Perhaps they simply got priced out with all the fees that are adding up. And yes, grids have been low since the economy tanked, but perhaps if there werent all these nickel and dime fees, at least a few more people could justify it. Hell, I was planning on flying up for a weekend just to hang with friends, but when you add up all the fees, its just not worth it. Need to buy a 120 dollar license for 1 weekend, then I need to buy the helmet eject system, then rent a transponder, then pay for camping or roofing it, then pay electricity so I dont freeze in my tent. The "fees" end up being more than the cost of the races.
Im just saying, some of you guys might be willing to pay for these fees, but everyone has a point where its just no longer worth it. I know for some veteran racers that time has come, and CEO is obviously frustrated with a few more. I understand that things are more in line where other tracks are charging, but what does that mean for us? We have to pay more than we did a couple years ago. And when during a riders meeting they beg for us to tell friends to come race, and offer all these ideas to get new racers out, tacking on more fees than what we're used to stings a little bit.

All I know is since I've been in texas I havent been to a single track day or race, but I go dirt riding every week. 20 bucks entry fee for an afternoon, 10 bucks in gas, and pack a lunch. I can go 5 times for the price of a race license, or damn near 10 for the price of one track day. Most people stopped racing because the money reached the point it just wasnt worth it, and found an alternative. Maybe LRRS can replace them, maybe not, but its something for them to bear in mind.

[csmutty]

Smutty, I think you're missing the point completely. Ex-racers ARE the leg that should be stood on. They're EX-racers for a reason. Perhaps they simply got priced out with all the fees that are adding up. And yes, grids have been low since the economy tanked, but perhaps if there werent all these nickel and dime fees, at least a few more people could justify it. Hell, I was planning on flying up for a weekend just to hang with friends, but when you add up all the fees, its just not worth it. Need to buy a 120 dollar license for 1 weekend, then I need to buy the helmet eject system, then rent a transponder, then pay for camping or roofing it, then pay electricity so I dont freeze in my tent. The "fees" end up being more than the cost of the races.
Im just saying, some of you guys might be willing to pay for these fees, but everyone has a point where its just no longer worth it. I know for some veteran racers that time has come, and CEO is obviously frustrated with a few more. I understand that things are more in line where other tracks are charging, but what does that mean for us? We have to pay more than we did a couple years ago. And when during a riders meeting they beg for us to tell friends to come race, and offer all these ideas to get new racers out, tacking on more fees than what we're used to stings a little bit.

All I know is since I've been in texas I havent been to a single track day or race, but I go dirt riding every week. 20 bucks entry fee for an afternoon, 10 bucks in gas, and pack a lunch. I can go 5 times for the price of a race license, or damn near 10 for the price of one track day. Most people stopped racing because the money reached the point it just wasnt worth it, and found an alternative. Maybe LRRS can replace them, maybe not, but its something for them to bear in mind.

Ok you guys are good at complaining, but what are some things that the series could do to improve? Every one of those fees that you listed seems reasonable to me. You want to volunteer to score with a stop watch with 20 other people? Buy an expensive generator to provide your own electricity (you'd have to fill it with gas too)? Motocross is a completely different animal. Track costs a lot less to build and keep up, the top speed is much lower so less or altered safety gear is required, which is also usually cheaper than road race stuff, less space is required, tires are cheaper, etc. It is just the nature of the beast. If you are happy dirt riding that is great, but it's not the same in the least. And LRRS isn't competing with dirt riding, as it is an invalid comparison and nowhere near the same. I am not seeing any viable alternatives to what the track is offering. If you do see something that could be improved PLEASE send an email to those who could do something with it. Your complaining over and over on NESR doesn't do anything constructive and just gets irritating after a while.

And if someone REALLY wanted to race, they find a way. Racers for the most part don't have many nice things except for their bikes and their program. If you love it enough to make the sacrifice, you'll be there. You could buy a cheap beater for a car instead of that new wrx, downsize to a cheaper apartment, hell some even load up their credit cards. Point being, the real racers who love the sport above all else...you can find them there.

[Sheppo]

I think Richie actually hit the nail on the head. "everyone has a point where its just no longer worth it."
and everyone is different. There is no right or wrong here.

[csmutty]

I think Richie actually hit the nail on the head. "everyone has a point where its just no longer worth it."
and everyone is different. There is no right or wrong here.

Then can we at least stop the complaining? It's as useful as Jim after 2 drinks.

[Pittenger5]

Once again I think youre missing the point. We're not complaining. Us Ex-racers are making the point why we are Ex-racers now. It simply is not worth it in the long haul. Sure I could find a way to race, but I would have to sell my house, and my car and everything else. Its just simply not worth it. I understand costs are higher in road race, but let me rephrase this, FOR THE COST IT WOULD TAKE TO RACE, IT IS NO LONGER WORTH IT TO ME. And it seems quite a for more people as well. Im not complaining about this, just stating a fact. It would also be nice to own a Roll Royce, but the cost associated with it is not worth it to me. Am I complaining that I cant own a rolls? Of course not.
Smutty, you can defend LRRS till you're blue in the face, but if they keep tacking on fees that people are unwilling to pay, it simply can not survive.

[Jim]

keep up that additude smutty & I wont be your prom date

[Pittenger5]

Then can we at least stop the complaining? It's as useful as Jim after 2 drinks.

Can we find one place in my statement where I'm complaining? I'm simply trying to make my point about the rising costs, and why I dont race anymore, as well as others. I have simply found a cheaper alternative that I enjoy.

[csmutty]

Once again I think youre missing the point. We're not complaining. Us Ex-racers are making the point why we are Ex-racers now. It simply is not worth it in the long haul. Sure I could find a way to race, but I would have to sell my house, and my car and everything else. Its just simply not worth it. I understand costs are higher in road race, but let me rephrase this, FOR THE COST IT WOULD TAKE TO RACE, IT IS NO LONGER WORTH IT TO ME. And it seems quite a for more people as well. Im not complaining about this, just stating a fact. It would also be nice to own a Roll Royce, but the cost associated with it is not worth it to me. Am I complaining that I cant own a rolls? Of course not.
Smutty, you can defend LRRS till you're blue in the face, but if they keep tacking on fees that people are unwilling to pay, it simply can not survive.

Ok...no offense...but who cares why you don't race?

Once again...what is the alternative to those fees?

keep up that additude smutty & I wont be your prom date

That's ok Jim...I already asked CEO. I'm intimidated by taller men.