Brake Bleeding/Bleeding Alternative Help?

["Dangerous" Dan K]

I'm having an issue with the brakes on my 02 KX125. The lever comes straight to the handle. 6 Fingers & I tried bleeding them, but it only made the issue worse.

So far my best lead has been to replace the brake line, it's probably the original and definitely not braided. Thing is, since our attempt at bleeding managed to make things worse, I wanted to try bleeding again before I started buying parts.

I found this thread that seems helpful http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...leed-them.html

My question with that approach, at which stage do I reattach the reservoir? This is a single rotor/caliper setup, so I'd guess after I pushed the pads out and pumped the brake lever. Is this accurate?

Here's what I'm picturing for a single caliper setup
1) remove reservoir cover
2) push pads to fully open caliper
3) squeeze lever until pads grab rotor
4) put cover back on reservoir.

Yay? Nay? Anything else to check? While I'm at it I'm going to check the caliper to be sure it's not leaking, but I don't think it is. I'll also check pad wear, but I can't imagine them being so worn that the lever goes to the bar. If this doesn't work I think my next step is replacing the brake line.

Any input/suggestions/advice appreciated.

Thanks.

[Jim]

i'm no expert, but i'd guess you're not bleeding your lines properly. have you zip tied your lever the grip for a night?

[GixerJockey]

i'm no expert,

duh...

[Jim]

good input noel. go put your balls on something.



edit: dont forget my Arai visor for 6/17

[DuncanMoto]

good input noel. go put your balls on something.



edit: dont forget my Arai visor for 6/17

After that comment you really want a visor from Noel?

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Jim:
No, we did not zip tie the lever overnight, it was a quick late-night attempt before riding in the am. 6 fingers led the show as he used to be a motorcycle mechanic & had the bleeding tool, I basically just did what I was told, which was mostly "pump the lever. hold the lever. release lever" etc. The fact that it was rushed and real late at night is what makes me want to try again before I start swapping parts. Thing is, I don't have the tool he did to bleed, so I'm stuck with the old fashioned way. I like the sounds of the way in the article I linked, but if that doesn't do the trick I'll try a standard old school bleed as well. If there's one thing I've got tonight it's time, even have company while I sit around fucking with the bike.

Noel:
You are a freakin' expert! A little help?

[butcher bergs]

You're probably at the point where you've effectively aerated the fluid.

At this point I suggest filling the res and tieing the lever to the bar for an hour or two before moving on.

After the time has elapsed, release the lever from the bar, crack the bleeder on the caliper and push the lever once checking for air bubbles in your bleed line.

Close the bleeder. SLOWLY pump the lever to check for any pressure. If not, crack the caliper bleeder again and squeeze the lever once allthewhile keeping an eye on your fluid level in the res.

There isn't an exact number of times you need to do this process but as long as you have air of any kind in the system, consider it not bled.

Call me if you want.

[DuncanMoto]

I think you probably have an air bubble in the caliper or at a banjo connecter. It can be hard to get out, but the piston method will get air out of the top of the caliper.
You may also have an air bubble in the master cylinder if you let it run dry. My masters all have bleed screws on them as well for just that purpose.

[DucDave]

Without the right tools, bleeding brakes is a dark art as far as I'm concerned. I've had the same experience you're having. I believe Bergs could get it done for me but I don't believe I could do it myself.

My approach to situations like this is to go find the most expensive, complex tool for the job I can find. That usually allows me to fuck it up sufficiently to have to take it to the dealer who will put it right in about 5 minutes. Sometimes they feel sorry for me and don't charge me. Not saying it's a strategy I'd employ if I were you. Just saying!

(Knowing Bergs, and he lives close to me and is a friend, I would probably beg him to help me today...and he probably would!)

Hope that helps...!

[butcher bergs]

So what are you saying Dave?

Do I need to kick out of work early??

[jmh992003]

Dan, get something like this. http://www.toolsource.com/hand-vacuu...rceid=googleps You can actualy rent one from advance auto parts, and I believe auto zone does tool rental too. I own one, I use it on my suzuki, harley, my ford and my chevy. IT works great, and will ensure that the lines are filled with fluid, and remove the air from the lines. I have used mine to completely flush all the fluid from my bikes, refill the master cylander, and then draw the fluid through completely empty lines. Check it out, it should work well. Also be sure to have some vasoline on hand to help "seal" the hose to your bleeder screw.

[DucDave]

So what are you saying Dave?

Do I need to kick out of work early??

Not tonight! My brakes are fine!

(BTW...the Strada is at Seacoast having a mid pipe, Termis, ECU and Airbox installed. Gonna try and breath a little more life into the 1100 and hopefully end up with something that doesn't sound so much like a sewing machine!)

[butcher bergs]

Also be sure to have some vasoline on hand to help "seal" the hose to your bleeder screw.

There's a joke in there somewhere...

[jmh992003]

There probably is, but that thing works awesome. Best 40 bucks I ever spent. Saves tons of time. I can flush the lines on my bike in no time.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

You're probably at the point where you've effectively aerated the fluid.

At this point I suggest filling the res and tieing the lever to the bar for an hour or two before moving on.

After the time has elapsed, release the lever from the bar, crack the bleeder on the caliper and push the lever once checking for air bubbles in your bleed line.

Close the bleeder. SLOWLY pump the lever to check for any pressure. If not, crack the caliper bleeder again and squeeze the lever once allthewhile keeping an eye on your fluid level in the res.

There isn't an exact number of times you need to do this process but as long as you have air of any kind in the system, consider it not bled.

Call me if you want.

Thanks bud! I'll try it. Don't be surprised if I call you in a bit though

I think you probably have an air bubble in the caliper or at a banjo connecter. It can be hard to get out, but the piston method will get air out of the top of the caliper.
You may also have an air bubble in the master cylinder if you let it run dry. My masters all have bleed screws on them as well for just that purpose.

Thanks. I never let it run dry, so hopefully there's nothing in the MC

Without the right tools, bleeding brakes is a dark art as far as I'm concerned. I've had the same experience you're having. I believe Bergs could get it done for me but I don't believe I could do it myself.

My approach to situations like this is to go find the most expensive, complex tool for the job I can find. That usually allows me to fuck it up sufficiently to have to take it to the dealer who will put it right in about 5 minutes. Sometimes they feel sorry for me and don't charge me. Not saying it's a strategy I'd employ if I were you. Just saying!

(Knowing Bergs, and he lives close to me and is a friend, I would probably beg him to help me today...and he probably would!)

Hope that helps...!

Damn shame Bergs doesn't live closer to my parents, where I keep the bike. Appreciate the insight all the same. I'm going to have to keep this one away from the dealer, racing has eliminated that luxury from my budget. I'm just hoping to fix it in time for Southwick.

Dan, get something like this. http://www.toolsource.com/hand-vacuu...rceid=googleps You can actualy rent one from advance auto parts, and I believe auto zone does tool rental too. I own one, I use it on my suzuki, harley, my ford and my chevy. IT works great, and will ensure that the lines are filled with fluid, and remove the air from the lines. I have used mine to completely flush all the fluid from my bikes, refill the master cylander, and then draw the fluid through completely empty lines. Check it out, it should work well. Also be sure to have some vasoline on hand to help "seal" the hose to your bleeder screw.

That looks just like the tool 6 fingers has, and used on sat night. makes me wonder if maybe this is an issue of a shit line and not a bleeding problem.

[SSearchVT]

I've had good luck using a piece of clear hose on the caliper. Fill the master cylinder, hook the line to the bleeder, open it, and apply a little vacuum - I use my mouth - be careful... Also keep an eye on the master cylinder to keep it from going empty. The vacuum gets the fluid started in the system and gives you a good place to start.

[butcher bergs]

Thanks bud! I'll try it. Don't be surprised if I call you in a bit though

I'm here till 2.

..and I doubt it's a bunk line. If anything it's going to be master-related, IMHO.

[akira700]

One other thing to add:
Bleeding takes time.
Move lots of fluid through the system. Sooner or later the air will come out.

Like others have said:
Strapping the lever full stop and gently tapping the lines and calipers with the handle end of a screwdriver helps too.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

OK, so I tried calling the master, aka the butcher, but no answer. Probably busy with his job or some such nonsense.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward bleeding issues - I'm definitely seeing air in the bleed line. Thing is, I've already bled 8oz, more than I can imagine the bike (remember, single rotor dirt bike) holds. Is this typical? I've got a 32oz bottle so I'm going to keep going until someone tells me otherwise, but a heads up wouldn't hurt.

Also, to bleed, should I be pumping the lever hard, or slowly depressing and releasing it?

Thanks.

[R7]

Drip......drip.....drip....let gravity do the work

Here's how I usually do it, works every time.

Make sure master is full of fluid.
Crack line at master (or bleader if it has one)
Pull the lever to the bar slow.
Tighten line or bleader
Release lever
I do this 3 times

Next, top off master with fluid
Crack bleader on calliper(s) (caution, put a clear tube on the bleader and run it into a water bottle or something)
Drink a beer, but keep an eye on the fluid level, add as needed.
Once you have a steady drip, pull lever to the bar.
Tighten bleader and release the lever
I do this 3 times

Slowly pump the lever so there is some feel, once you have some feel in the lever, zip tie it to the bar and walk away for a while. I've had best results leaving it like that overnight.
Cut the zip tie in the morning, give the lever a few pumps and it should be good.
When I was racing, I would zip tie my brake lever every night when I was at the track

[butcher bergs]

I have faith in you, D.

[Kurlon]

If you've got tubing, you're set. Put the tubing on the bleeder on the caliper, and raise it up a bit, so you can build up a column of brake fluid. Let the other end dangle in a catch can/etc. Open your reservoir, and make sure it's full. Crack the caliper bleeder just enough that when you pump you move fluid up into the tube, but you can still feel some resistance.

Now, start pumping fluid through the system using deliberate, smooth pumps of the brake lever. At first you'll get fluid with little air. Eventually you'll start getting big pockets of air blurting out as you push them down through the hose. Once they stop and you're getting just fluid, close the bleeder and test the feel at the lever. By maintaining a column of fluid over the bleeder, you avoid sucking air in when you release the brake lever. The first couple of times you pump, watch the level, you'll need to observe how far back the level drops in the bleed tube when you release, and make sure you keep it pumped up. As long as you keep that column of fluid there, you don't need to do the squeeze, open bleeder, finish pump, close bleeder routine, just pump the fluid through drawing the air pockets with it.

Make sure you don't run the master dry while doing this, and I've had to refill the master 3 times in one shot before on a long brake line.

[dave1450cc]

New guy here... but lots of brake bleeding experience. FWIW, I use a plastic syringe (like those used for dispensing children’s medicine) and clear plastic hose.

Depending on how stubborn the system is, I either draw the fluid through the system at the caliper (basically the vacuum method) - or I reverse bleed, which is filling the syringe with fluid and filling the system from the bleeder.

I have a vacuum bleeder too, but I found the syringe is the best tool for the job and makes quick work of it even on dual line systems.

Dave

[Degsy]

Holy crap. Lots of advice. I have never had a problem doing it this way and I have bled hundreds of brake systems.
You will need:

A screwdriver to take the top off the reservoir
An 8mm wrench for the bleed screw.
A bottle of dot 4 brake fluid.
a piece of 1/4 clear tubing

1. open the top of the reservoir.
2. pour in fluid to the top
3. Attach tubing to the bleed nipple.
4. loosen the bleed screw
5. slowly close the brake lever
6. tighten the bleed screw
7. slowly release the brake lever
repeat 4 thru 7 as many times as needed to get fluid to start coming out.

Then (and this is where everyone will disagree with me)
Leave the bleed screw open just enough to allow fluid to come out when you pump the brake lever and just keep pumping the brake lever quickly in and slowly out and you will see the bubbles appear after a few pumps. Keep topping off the brake fluid in the reservoir as you go. You waste quite a bit of fluid but you'll only need one container anyway so it doesn't matter.

After doing this until no more tiny bubbles come out, just fluid, close the bleed screw. The brake lever should feel solid now. If not, pull the lever in and snap release it out. this will bring bubbles up into the reservoir. One bubble is all you will likely see. The system should now be totally bubble free.

d

[akira700]

All good advise.

You know if all this don't work you could have a leak
at the threads in your bleeder screw. Sounds like you have
been doing alot of all we have suggested. I have put silicone
plumbers tape on the bleeder valve screw (it can't hurt) and it stopped
the air leak and then things improved much after that.