Ice Ice baby

[R7]

Here it is illegal to kill beavers, and trapping is by permit only. I actually like it when they raise the water level here, just the location of their house kinda messes up the fun of our ice track in the winter, and kayaking in the summer.

I debated selling my Raptor, but couldn’t get myself to part with it. It needed some much needed maintenance, so I finally broke down and did it all a couple weeks ago. First major service it’s had in 14 years, replaced all the suspension bushings and bearings, axle bearings and seals, replaced a lot of missing/broken body mounting hardware, and finally put the headlight back on that fell off years ago.. haha

That’s a beast for your boy, I bet he loves ripping around on it. You ain’t selling it at this point

[Tas]

So is anyone riding ice in NH on Saturday? I’ve put 540 screws in the ttr wheels.

Looks like it could be snowing on Sunday.

[Stoneman]

Here it is illegal to kill beavers, and trapping is by permit only. I actually like it when they raise the water level here, just the location of their house kinda messes up the fun of our ice track in the winter, and kayaking in the summer.

It's technically illegal to hunt or trap them out of season. I *BELIEVE* our lake association gets an exception because of the nuisance. I get a kick out of them though, as much as a pain as they can be. Each year when we cut down the saplings in the backyard, they'll come grab them if we don't burn 'em quick enough. They think we don't notice. But we do...we do...

I debated selling my Raptor, but couldn’t get myself to part with it. It needed some much needed maintenance, so I finally broke down and did it all a couple weeks ago. First major service it’s had in 14 years, replaced all the suspension bushings and bearings, axle bearings and seals, replaced a lot of missing/broken body mounting hardware, and finally put the headlight back on that fell off years ago.. haha

Ha ha ha! Yours too??? It's been about 8 years since it's had a major servicing. I got everything I needed as well to make it whole again. And much like yours, that included putting the new hardware & mounting brackets on that I've had sitting around for years. I didn't realize it until I started putting it back together that the headlight that fell off years ago needed replacing. Waiting on that now. I still plan to sell it. People are asking CRAZY money for these right now. Mine's FI too & people really seem to like those.

Although after all those years of sitting, I literally blew the spark arrestor right out of the muffler when I started hammering it. My boy loves the sound now, but I think it sounds like shit.

That’s a beast for your boy, I bet he loves ripping around on it. You ain’t selling it at this point

You shut your whore mouth! I have every intention of selling it. It's utterly useless around here other than ice. Little does he know as long as he doesn't act like a complete dick and I find the right deal, he'll be up for a sporty 400 when this is gone. A 400 will get MUCH more use around us than that Raptor ever will.

Once the Rappy's gone, his current 250 will be up for sale. Actually...technically I guess you could say it already is. I just haven't gotten around to really getting the word out yet. But I completely went through that one too over the summer - front to back, top to bottom. Again, to get it ready to sell.

[Stoneman]

So is anyone riding ice in NH on Saturday? I’ve put 540 screws in the ttr wheels.

Looks like it could be snowing on Sunday.

A few of us will be farting around on our lake with the kids. They'll likely be doing most of the riding, but every once in a while us old timers will jump in and show 'em how it's done.

[MHenry600]

So I got the two hunny out last Saturday for the first time. The Fourniers have so much grip, even on the snowy chopped up stuff. You've got to be working to spin them up, which takes a little fun out of it. Was a blast though.

I've got to move the shifter down since I had a hard time catching upshifts. I moved it up a notch during the summer to make it easier to get at while standing, doesn't match my sitting position now. Not a big deal.

After tweaking the spokes, the tires don't seem to be hitting anything. A really light touch on the fork guards a couple times, but not enough to worry.

I fattened everything up in the carb following the KTM book for the cold (about 20-25 deg last weekend). There's a pretty heavy stumble at 1/4 throttle, which leads me to the needle, but I don't know which way I need to go with it (rich or lean). Just seems more so than the normal two stroke jutters. It might be on the edge of the pilot jet too, which I could go either way with (have a bunch of jets). Pulls like a train on the Main, so I think that's pretty good.
How do you guys usually tune for the cold?

[Stoneman]

How do you guys usually tune for the cold?

Fuel injection.

[jimmycapp]

2 stroke? Is it a bog or a studder? Studder is too much fuel. Bog is too little. My 300 Ktm has jd jet kit which I think runs a smaller pilot jet (45?) across the board. For cold temps, the air screw is maybe 1/8 open. Any more than that and you get a little bog coming on the throttle. The jd jet kit comes with two needles as well. I run the blue which gives it more fuel it that throttle range as well.

[jimmycapp]

Bog feels like smooth loss of power, studder feels more jerky like the choke is still on.

[MHenry600]

Fuel injection.

Ha, fair enough.

2 stroke? Is it a bog or a studder? Studder is too much fuel. Bog is too little. My 300 Ktm has jd jet kit which I think runs a smaller pilot jet (45?) across the board. For cold temps, the air screw is maybe 1/8 open. Any more than that and you get a little bog coming on the throttle. The jd jet kit comes with two needles as well. I run the blue which gives it more fuel it that throttle range as well.

Yeah, 2 stroke. Feels rich to me. Instead of the usual splooge on the pipe, it looks like it's blown all over everything too (little dots everywhere). I've got a set of JD needles (red/blue) that came with the bike too, but have been running the stock stuff. I wanted to err on the side of rich, but think it's a bit heavy. Might try moving the clip up a notch on the needle, and turn the air screw in some. If that doesn't get me there, maybe down a size on the pilot.

Debating on sneaking out early this afternoon to rip a few laps. Should be sunny and 20deg (currently 5).

[nhbubba]

KTM 200? My book has a table with all the parameters; jet, main, needle, needle clip, and air screw. I have found it to be close enough for the girls I hang out with in all conditions.

Typeone posted a pretty detailed procedure for dialing the screw pre-ride. I've done that a couple times and it is a thing. But I'm usually too lazy; I just set it per the book and ride.

Power valve is another thing for ice. I usually dialed it all the way (in?!) towards the wild side. Doesn't do much on the 200 but I could tell the difference. For woods I like it a lot more on the mild end of things.

That said I have had all the usual problems with bowl float spring and such. Too much one way and she falls on her face WFO. Too much the other way and it pisses fuel everywhere.

[MHenry600]

KTM 200? My book has a table with all the parameters; jet, main, needle, needle clip, and air screw. I have found it to be close enough for the girls I hang out with in all conditions.

Typeone posted a pretty detailed procedure for dialing the screw pre-ride. I've done that a couple times and it is a thing. But I'm usually too lazy; I just set it per the book and ride.

Power valve is another thing for ice. I usually dialed it all the way (in?!) towards the wild side. Doesn't do much on the 200 but I could tell the difference. For woods I like it a lot more on the mild end of things.

That said I have had all the usual problems with bowl float spring and such. Too much one way and she falls on her face WFO. Too much the other way and it pisses fuel everywhere.

Yeah, I went right by the book, but it doesn't feel right. Really stumbly at that part throttle. I run what it says during the summer temps, and it has always felt good then. I did tune the pv back this summer, so maybe I'll crank that back up.
Did a little searching but couldn't find the A/S notes you mentioned. I'm sure I haven't tuned that in right, but just ran what the book told me.
Haven't messed with the bowl and such since I figured it felt good during the summer months. I think it's just jetting.

[typeone]

MHenry, where is your air screw at? that will help determine pilot.

another JD fan here, the needles are just so much more forgiving to varying conditions. way less fiddly.

EDIT: not sure if KTM is the same but PV adjustments inward usually delay the 'hit' which = smoother. turning out applies less preload on the spring(s) letting the valve open sooner = quicker 'hit'. i like my PVs barely in. 0 turn for current 200, 1 turn for the 250.

[jimmycapp]

EDIT: not sure if KTM is the same but PV adjustments inward usually delay the 'hit' which = smoother. turning out applies less preload on the spring(s) letting the valve open sooner = quicker 'hit'. i like my PVs barely in. 0 turn for current 200, 1 turn for the 250.

Correct, in delays opening. Also, there are usually 3 springs that come with the bike (one installed).



Edit: Guess it has a name; KTM Twin Valve Control exhaust system.

[MHenry600]

MHenry, where is your air screw at? that will help determine pilot.

another JD fan here, the needles are just so much more forgiving to varying conditions. way less fiddly.

EDIT: not sure if KTM is the same but PV adjustments inward usually delay the 'hit' which = smoother. turning out applies less preload on the spring(s) letting the valve open sooner = quicker 'hit'. i like my PVs barely in. 0 turn for current 200, 1 turn for the 250.

I set it 1.5 turns out per the book. After running laps for 30 min or so that day, I tried turning the air screw in/out listening for the idle, but couldn't notice a big difference either way. I'd turn it a bit and wait a few seconds. Maybe I just don't have the ear for it. haha.

It's the same with the KTM. Screwing it in makes the pv open later (less "hit"). Until this summer it was set up with minimal preload. After I blew apart my shoulder, I started to play with it a bit trying to smooth it out for the woods.

[MHenry600]

Also, there are usually 3 springs that come with the bike (one installed).

200 has no colorful springs, just a big adjuster under a cap that you turn in/out. Makes it pretty easy to mess with.

[nhbubba]

I knew I had the PV adjustment backwards. Usually I would just move it to near opposite stops from wherever it was when switching from woods => ice.

I meant to mention that I never swap idle jet. Only main, needle and clip height.. and A/S screw.

A/S screw adjustment blurb was handy. We should try to find it. Bottom line was that you are looking for a certain 'snap' when giving a quick whack off idle. Keep at it until you get there. The few times I've invested fiddling to dial that in helped.

[MHenry600]

I knew I had the PV adjustment backwards. Usually I would just move it to near opposite stops from wherever it was when switching from woods => ice.

I meant to mention that I never swap idle jet. Only main, needle and clip height.. and A/S screw.

A/S screw adjustment blurb was handy. We should try to find it. Bottom line was that you are looking for a certain 'snap' when giving a quick whack off idle. Keep at it until you get there. The few times I've invested fiddling to dial that in helped.

Maybe I could have gotten there with just the A/S, but the pilot jet that was in it was a 40. For the temps, the book called for a 45 so I swapped it. I noticed with the 40 in it when I ran it a couple weeks ago in the garage, it had that lean "boooog" when I snapped it quick. So maybe the A/S or split the difference with a 42 would get it there.

I've always hated carbs, but I think I'm finally learning something about them this time.

[typeone]

I set it 1.5 turns out per the book. After running laps for 30 min or so that day, I tried turning the air screw in/out listening for the idle, but couldn't notice a big difference either way. I'd turn it a bit and wait a few seconds. Maybe I just don't have the ear for it. haha.

hmm, how far in and out did you test? set your idle a bit high with idle screw then try A/S again. with the idle a bit high, you want to turn in (richer) a bit, then out (leaner) and listen for a change in idle, it should settle. in between those findings will be your setting for the conditions. if you went way out with no change, lots more air coming in, pilot might be too rich.

200 has no colorful springs, just a big adjuster under a cap that you turn in/out. Makes it pretty easy to mess with.

same here on the Beta 250 and 200, only a single spring but you can purchase different spring rates.

I knew I had the PV adjustment backwards. Usually I would just move it to near opposite stops from wherever it was when switching from woods => ice.

I meant to mention that I never swap idle jet. Only main, needle and clip height.. and A/S screw.

A/S screw adjustment blurb was handy. We should try to find it. Bottom line was that you are looking for a certain 'snap' when giving a quick whack off idle. Keep at it until you get there. The few times I've invested fiddling to dial that in helped.

hmm, i'll try to find as well ... if not, it's pretty easy to type up again once you get used to the process it's cake before / during each ride, assuming jetting is correct. you're essentially tuning for that nice, crisp 0-open snap with a healthy bark. bike must be warm first ... once the A/S feels good stationary, take off at a slow pace, click up to ~3rd and roll on throttle, power should be smooth and no stumbles/burps/bogs. just bbbbrrrraaaaap! all the way through.

[nhbubba]

Maybe I could have gotten there with just the A/S, but the pilot jet that was in it was a 40. For the temps, the book called for a 45 so I swapped it. I noticed with the 40 in it when I ran it a couple weeks ago in the garage, it had that lean "boooog" when I snapped it quick. So maybe the A/S or split the difference with a 42 would get it there.

I've always hated carbs, but I think I'm finally learning something about them this time.

Okay. You made me go look. I would like to change my bullshit story about never changing the idle jets. I must have. Book does say different between seasons. Shows how long it has been since I've ridden!

I think I'd be tuning for the 19-41-F range, sea level. Per my book that is:

Air screw : 1.5 turns open
Idle jet : 48
Needle : NOZH
Clip : 4
Main jet : 168

The only place in my table that shows a 40 idle jet is like >10k feet or >100-F temps. None of the sea-level settings go above a 42.

What year 200 is this? I'm on a 2012 with a 36mm Keihin. All my jets are Keihin.

As I say, my experience has been do what the book says and all is well. Aside from a sticky float and some fuel on the ground, I've found the 200 pretty easy to get along with here. Its only one carb and very easy to get into. That said, I'm not an expert and do not tune to perfection like some we know. I've always felt that I've left some on the table with this bike and been fine with that.

[MHenry600]

Hmm, surprised there's so much difference. I've got a 2014. PWK36.
Sea level, 19-41 F calls for:
ASO: 1.5
Pilot: 45
Needle: N1EH
Pos: 4th
Main: 168

Calls for 40 pilot over 79 deg, or at 1000+ft over 60 deg.
Running 50:1 for what it's worth.

[nhbubba]

Book says Keihin PWK 36S AG. Whatever that means

FWIW mine is thirsty. Maybe we know why now..

50:1 sounds reasonable to me. But as we've seen already I may be remembering things wrong. I'm too lazy to go look at what I highlighted on the mixing jar.

Feel like you should try a fatter idle/pilot jet. But I dunno