My crash going in turn 3 last round. Open for criticism and helpful advice

[burnham]

I watched that crash while standing at T3, couldn't tell a whole lot but it looked like you might have grabbed a hand full of front brake, and maybe were a little to the right of the race line.

[odduc]

I'm sorry to hear that you got banged up in the crash. Hope you recover soon.

I was lucky as my crash was a relatively easy lowside and the only damage was to my leathers and a broken foot peg on the bike. Of course, my ego was most heavily damaged as I really thought I was making improvements. But, the crash set me back to square one and made me ride like a big pussy for the rest of the weekend.

Again, best wishes for a fast recovery.

[OreoGaborio]

I watched that crash while standing at T3, couldn't tell a whole lot but it looked like you might have grabbed a hand full of front brake, and maybe were a little to the right of the race line.

Yeah, he's a little to the right, but I'm not sure that alone would be a contributor as I've taken an inside line plenty of times as a defensive line.

But as others have stated, he went down on the left side, so it's possible he was trying to get back to the left at the same time so that may have contributed along with forks, tires & brake application technique.

[Roland]

Hard to tell from so far away ... but it looks like the left side of the bike hit the ground, correct? I ask because it looks like you fell off the left side of the bike. If that's the case, I'm going with Paul_E_D's critique. Not thinking he was turning in that far back, plus if he and the bike fell left it would also suggest he wasn't turning in right.

Btw, for those who know they have pads that bite harder when they are hot (not sure what brand these are) such that it could cause you to crash in a fashion like this ... drag your brakes around the track on the warm-up lap to get them up to temp ... don't wait for T1 or T3 after the green flies. Personally, I'd get rid of any pads that behaved in that manner, but that's just me.

You are correct in all that you said my friend. I was (or thought i was) straight up and down when they locked up. bike landed on left side. I start braking at first cone. came off throttle right before first cone. after reading others post i think you all are correct i was braking too hard in the first place, hit that first big bump bottomed out forks and possibly stabbed brake a little when i hit the bump as a knee jerk reaction not even realizing i was doing it. I did have a zip tie on forks but after crash zip tie was no were to be found. i don't know if it popped off or got pushed in the dust seal lip. Weird that i cant find the zip tie there is a dirt mark from were it was placed on the forks, but cant find the zip tie its self. and yes i did actually feel the forks bottom out in that crash. it felt like a big hard thump followed buy the sound of tire screech right at time of crash. I felt it all but it happened way too fast for me to react to it and get off the brakes. As soon as it happened my ass was in the air and i was in that oh so familiar "OH SHIT" im in the air again mode!

As for the white smoke in the first lap. no i am not normally on my rear brake. in this case though i was, this is because I was going to try to take rather Tyler or McGuire on the inside for second, and realized at the last moment if i continued on that path i might hit one of them. They were riding tighter together than i thought, no room for me to squeeze in so I grabbed front and rear to slow down enough not to hit either of them. i would gladly take a chance at wiping my self out over the possibility of hitting another racer. My biggest fear when on the track isn't hurting my self, but hurting someone else when it could be avoided.

As for it damaging my confidence. well only time will tell. It definitely pissed me off more than anything because i couldn't for the life of me figure out where i went wrong! I thought i had t3 down packed, that is until i went down. i have incurred confidence issues with the bowl though. I am currently considerably slower in the bowl and in t8 than i was in the past because of me not being able to figure out what i did wrong there 3 times in April and once in June. i actually broke my ankle in June in T1 but knew right off the bat what i did wrong so in the words of Eric I "just don't do that anymore" and am fine in t1. to put it all in prospective i have had only 4 track days total in my life before deciding i wanted to race this year. I've been on my ass more times than i can count this year, but found my self capable of pulling 1:25s on completely stock, used, and beat up, 12 & 13 year old bikes. Now i know 1:25's in not in anyway something to brag about at all, but in all i feel pretty good about where i am at (other than the ankle being re broke). I have no aspiration of being anything other than a CLUB expert one day. No AMA or WSB, so if i see 1:23's and a bump to amateur next year ill be completely stoked! Even though i am a back of the pac novice and have not yet seen a podium or a decent finish once, this has been one of the funnest years of my adult life! I am wounded but still itching to get back out there. Just wish i would have started doing this a lot younger.

Thanks everyone for your helpful words of wisdom & experience.

[Roland]

so its no different than any other time he'd climbed on the bike this year. crashes and injuries haven't stopped him for going out and doing it again.

LMFAO and this one wont stop me either!!!!

[LXnastynotch93]

Crashes happen man, and you're doing the right thing by trying to learn what you did that may have caused it. It's easy for the pros because they have all the telemetry, but much harder when you're not privileged to that information.

On a side note, I LOL'ed hard at the dude pulling a spread-eagle wheelie in front of you at the very beginning of the video.

[shortbus]

What are your plans for new engine covers?

[Roland]

Crashes happen man, and you're doing the right thing by trying to learn what you did that may have caused it. It's easy for the pros because they have all the telemetry, but much harder when you're not privileged to that information.

On a side note, I LOL'ed hard at the dude pulling a spread-eagle wheelie in front of you at the very beginning of the video.

Yeah i chuckled at that my self for a second after it happened. When i saw him doing it during the race all that was going threw my head was Please don't flip her in front of me lol. He held on though, and finished better than me lol.

[Roland]

What are your plans for new engine covers?

Dont know yet. i've been all over the web trying to find some for the one bike that works (zx9r) but cant. Probably have MarkMarine fabricate something to go over stock ones. or fix the transmission in my r6. Do you know of any possible solutions i could try? Or of someone selling a left side cover for a zx9r? I brought the last one that they had at factorypro for the right side but no one has any left for the left side.

[shortbus]

Dont know yet. i've been all over the web trying to find some for the one bike that works (zx9r) but cant. Probably have MarkMarine fabricate something to go over stock ones. or fix the transmission in my r6. Do you know of any possible solutions i could try? Or of someone selling a left side cover for a zx9r? I brought the last one that they had at factorypro for the right side but no one has any left for the left side.

I wonder if you'd be able to take a zx10r or zx6r cover from similar years and make it work?

[Trouble]

I'm glad you're trying to figure out what happened. If you're crashing on a regular basis I'd say it's time to step back and regroup. Odds are you are going to hurt yourself badly (worse than it sounds like you have) and perhaps take out another rider in the process. It's tough to learn at race pace and race practices are pretty limited. I'd recommend doing another track day and/or instruction. Take another look at the track at a slower pace and break down each corner. Figure them out (or at least get a better grasp of them). Get yourself into a consistent rhythm. Then pick your pace back up making changes as necessary. Just because you started racing late in life doesn't mean that you should rush to catch up. There are lots of racers out there that are older than us and a lot faster.

FWIW your line through the bowl tells me you are going to crash there again. Let the bike drift out toward the apron instead of fighting it to keep the inside line. Watch the rider in front of you at 3:40 for an idea of what I'm talking about.

[Roland]

I wonder if you'd be able to take a zx10r or zx6r cover from similar years and make it work?

I checked the part numbers and they are different but that doesn't mean its not possible, the difference could have just been cosmetic. I am desperately trying to find out if that is possible. if you find out it is please please let me know!

[shortbus]

Yeah i chuckled at that my self for a second after it happened. When i saw him doing it during the race all that was going threw my head was Please don't flip her in front of me lol. He held on though, and finished better than me lol.

The guy next to you did it too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbwdLZ8ucUk

[Jim]

The guy next to you did it too

shut up novice

[Kurlon]

I checked the part numbers and they are different but that doesn't mean its not possible, the difference could have just been cosmetic. I am desperately trying to find out if that is possible. if you find out it is please please let me know!

Worst case - Buy some fiberglass and resin from the local cheap auto parts warehouse and slather on a few layers over your OEM covers. If you haven't already rashed them up, attack them with something to scour them up to give the resin something to bite into.

[Rada]

I checked the part numbers and they are different but that doesn't mean its not possible, the difference could have just been cosmetic. I am desperately trying to find out if that is possible. if you find out it is please please let me know!

Seems like Woodcraft would be able to hook you up with a cover... They have lot's of knowledge here...

If you can wait for a winter project I could make something that works from you old cover. Providing that the bolt holes are intact enough to measure...
Probably be a 250-300 dollar one off part.

[timmyho414]

Dont know yet. i've been all over the web trying to find some for the one bike that works (zx9r) but cant. Probably have MarkMarine fabricate something to go over stock ones. or fix the transmission in my r6. Do you know of any possible solutions i could try? Or of someone selling a left side cover for a zx9r? I brought the last one that they had at factorypro for the right side but no one has any left for the left side.

for the 1k it will cost to fix the r6 which needs 500 dollars worth of covers, clip-ons and other bits or to get covers on the zx-9 which I'm not sure was ever a good race bike plus setting it up, sell them both. Someone will buy them, you may be able to get 1.5-2k for both of them. Save some money and buy a set-up light weight like an SV(there have been two THIS WEEK for under 3.5k on this site). Then do some track days with it and get some instruction. You may have to sit out a round or two but it will cost less then the road you are on now.

[MarkMarine]

Dont know yet. i've been all over the web trying to find some for the one bike that works (zx9r) but cant. Probably have MarkMarine fabricate something to go over stock ones. or fix the transmission in my r6. Do you know of any possible solutions i could try? Or of someone selling a left side cover for a zx9r? I brought the last one that they had at factorypro for the right side but no one has any left for the left side.

I talked to Eric about this, it's not easy, but luckily at work we have a fancy CMM that I setup for the inspection guys, so if I can get a good example of a stock cover I'll make a billet one. I don't get to do much pure engineering anymore, so I relish the opportunity for a challenge.

[MarkMarine]

Seems like Woodcraft would be able to hook you up with a cover... They have lot's of knowledge here...

If you can wait for a winter project I could make something that works from you old cover. Providing that the bolt holes are intact enough to measure...
Probably be a 250-300 dollar one off part.

The damn cover locates some of the internal engine parts, so it's not just the bolt spacing. Wish it was that easy. Eric said it's about 80 hrs of work, so Roland is just lucky he gets the teammate discount.

[shortbus]

It's pretty awesome LRRS has an Eric Wood willing to do stuff like this... I got to audit the machine shop woodcraft uses because they make stuff for my company and loved it. Its a great time taking the advanced penguin course and seeing the free body diagrams describing lean angle done properly... fucking mechanical engineers.

[Rada]

The damn cover locates some of the internal engine parts, so it's not just the bolt spacing. Wish it was that easy. Eric said it's about 80 hrs of work, so Roland is just lucky he gets the teammate discount.

Ahhhh... WTF..

[CBR929RE]

The damn cover locates some of the internal engine parts, so it's not just the bolt spacing. Wish it was that easy. Eric said it's about 80 hrs of work, so Roland is just lucky he gets the teammate discount.

but can you bolt a cover on over the stock one? much simpler design and still offers better protection than nothing
a carbon cover would be easier to make since a mold can be made right off the stock cover. hell if someone has a vacuumform and some prepreg cf it'd be real easy.

[MarkMarine]

It's pretty awesome LRRS has an Eric Wood willing to do stuff like this... I got to audit the machine shop woodcraft uses because they make stuff for my company and loved it. Its a great time taking the advanced penguin course and seeing the free body diagrams describing lean angle done properly... fucking mechanical engineers.

Dude, Eric isn't doing it, he said he'd charge like 2 grand for a single cover if he had to do a one off. He is a way better business man than I am

Roland is a team mate, so I'll do it for him (provided he wants to race that bike still)

I'm going to CMM and 3D scan the stock one, then model, CAM and cut the billet one (I'll probably make 4-5 because once I have the machine setup why not, the metal is cheap. )

And as I understand it, his engine case was dragging already. I don't think we have the clearance to put a cover over the cover or I'd go that route.

[Roland]

I'm glad you're trying to figure out what happened. If you're crashing on a regular basis I'd say it's time to step back and regroup. Odds are you are going to hurt yourself badly (worse than it sounds like you have) and perhaps take out another rider in the process. It's tough to learn at race pace and race practices are pretty limited. I'd recommend doing another track day and/or instruction. Take another look at the track at a slower pace and break down each corner. Figure them out (or at least get a better grasp of them). Get yourself into a consistent rhythm. Then pick your pace back up making changes as necessary. Just because you started racing late in life doesn't mean that you should rush to catch up. There are lots of racers out there that are older than us and a lot faster.

FWIW your line through the bowl tells me you are going to crash there again. Let the bike drift out toward the apron instead of fighting it to keep the inside line. Watch the rider in front of you at 3:40 for an idea of what I'm talking about.

I agree with all you said, I just would like to clarify. I have done more track days and racing lessons since I starting racing. When i said i only had done 4 that was prior to me starting to race this year. This year I have done 5 penguin friday practices and also the 2 day June classes. i will continue to do more in the future I know i have a long way to go and cant get where i want to be with out help. . i am in no rush to be any type of expert. but i would love to get those red numbers off my bike lol. The suggestions you recommended is exactly what i plan on doing. Thanks for the advice it will be used

[Roland]

for the 1k it will cost to fix the r6 which needs 500 dollars worth of covers, clip-ons and other bits or to get covers on the zx-9 which I'm not sure was ever a good race bike plus setting it up, sell them both. Someone will buy them, you may be able to get 1.5-2k for both of them. Save some money and buy a set-up light weight like an SV(there have been two THIS WEEK for under 3.5k on this site). Then do some track days with it and get some instruction. You may have to sit out a round or two but it will cost less then the road you are on now.

you know i listen to your advice Tim. Thanks for all of the help you've given me this past year it was a god send! I plan on getting an sv that is my goal for next year but i'm not selling my baby (zx9r) she is getting re restored for the street and occasional track day. just had her so long i don't want to get rid of her and she is a rare bike to see around. but you are right she is just to powerful for ME on the track even with the proper suspension upgrades. The R6 is going to be a hard sell but I'm planning on just saving as much as i can over the winter and getting a set up sv next season.