NHMS 2012 Suggestions?

[csmutty]

the last time i rode NHMS was in October and decided the track condition is crap and made it known i wouldnt race on it till its fixed. if that means i never race there again, so be it, but that doesnt mean I don't want to see the series turn for the worse. I rather see it come up to par with other organizations and make it worth while for a guy to drive 10 hours for. There is something to be said when people bypass closer tracks to attend farther away ones.

alot of people here have only raced lrrs and that is all they know. im bringing my opinions from my time spent with ccs & wera. there are things that I think lrrs does better then CCS. Tech & Registration are 2 of the things i can come up with. But im not going to comment on them if i think they are fine in a thread about improvements.

Racing isn't for girl scouts. I think the track condition is challenging, which makes it all the more fun....anyways.

What I think would be cool is to have an off the bike start for the motard race. Have the riders run to their bikes, kick them over, and then take off.

[Chippertheripper]

I hate that idea.

[SVRACER01]

ya, Chip tried that last weekend. problem was, no one else was doing it

[Chippertheripper]

Lolz!!

[lrrs313]

Have the riders run to their bikes, kick them over, and then take off.

Didn't you try that yourself and end up starting from pregrid?

[SVRACER01]

Racing isn't for girl scouts. I think the track condition is challenging, which makes it all the more fun....anyways.

i agree with this, i love smooth pavement as much as the next guy, but realistically it adds to the difficulty. i couldnt imagine what lap times would be if NHMS was smooth. ive said it before...if you can ride well at NHMS, you can ride well just about anywhere.

[csmutty]

Didn't you try that yourself and end up starting from pregrid?

I forgot to use my hotstart lever. Once I used it it lit off first kick.

[Woodcraft]

wera does it best imho. you have provisional novices that have to wear a neon shirt. after you make it 2 weekends, off comes the shirt. right now in the current economy, the grids just dont justify having a 3 tier structure. if you were having 40-60 bikes per race, then yes. but when grids are small enough that race winners cannot collect contingency its unjustifiable. and as someone who is slow as shit, if someone is uncomfortable by being on a race track with faster riders, they should probably reevaluate their newly found hobby.

that is one of a few things i could pick out of the rulebook. belly pans is my biggest complaint. it seems everytime the belly pan issue pops up the ptwins mafia & motards get their panties in a bunch.

the last thing i can come up with, make a rotating schedule. right now you have guys who are stuck waiting till the end of sunday to race. you can come up with 3 or 4 "stock" schedules and switch them up.

The WERA thing is a step in the right direction. CCS does nothing, and I think that is a mistake. As for the grid size, the guys that run 1:30+ at Loudon are not likely to stick with it if they are getting their doors sucked off every weekend. That's no fun for anyone. I have personal experience with a number of riders in the past year who started out really slow, and took 4-5 weekends to get up to speed. These guys didn't need a new hobby, they needed time. Several of them are now competitive because they had a place to ride and stuck with it. Others are still happy to be racing at 1:30's, and I'm OK with those guys being Novice forever....as are they. In this economy, the issue is not getting grids for contingency, it is getting more people into the sport. Long term, I believe that the Novice class is the way to do this. Let them come, be part of the paddock, enjoy the atmosphere and develop at whatever pace they like. The other options are to put them where they aren't comfortable or send them away....niether of which do I think is wise.

Belly pans....I think we can re-look at. It's possible that we can help the p-twins guys and motard guys figure it out if given time (say, by next year).

The schedule can be looked at. I can tell you, having spent dozens of hours helping with this, that it is difficult to come up with one schedule that works for most guys. I think at best we could do two....we will talk about this in the off season. Some riders who just run one day have expressed the need for a consistent schedule - that, and the challenge of coming up with two that work are the hurdles that must be cleared.

[Awesome]

i agree with this, i love smooth pavement as much as the next guy, but realistically it adds to the difficulty. i couldnt imagine what lap times would be if NHMS was smooth. ive said it before...if you can ride well at NHMS, you can ride well just about anywhere.

I strongly disagree. Yes, it's easy to learn to ride on a bump and a transition and adjust your riding for it, but I don't want to. I would happily race silk smooth pavement over it any day without hesitation.

[wiggeywackyo]

i agree with this, i love smooth pavement as much as the next guy, but realistically it adds to the difficulty. i couldnt imagine what lap times would be if NHMS was smooth. ive said it before...if you can ride well at NHMS, you can ride well just about anywhere.

I also concur. My first track day was down at Barber and I felt like a fast guy there. Came back up here and pretty much suck.

That being said though, those snakes in 9 almost bit me once on Saturday.

[SVRACER01]

Belly pans....I think we can re-look at. It's possible that we can help the p-twins guys and motard guys figure it out if given time (say, by next year).

i know that the PT guys say that the bellypan drags, especially in 10. some even say its the frame and or exhaust. i also know that most series require the motards to run a "diaper". im not sure, but with a similar frame design, wouldnt a "diaper" work on a PT bike? just thinking out loud.

The schedule can be looked at. I can tell you, having spent dozens of hours helping with this, that it is difficult to come up with one schedule that works for most guys. I think at best we could do two....we will talk about this in the off season. Some riders who just run one day have expressed the need for a consistent schedule - that, and the challenge of coming up with two that work are the hurdles that must be cleared.

i know when i was racing that i couldnt race on Sat because of work. it kinda sucked to bring my whole program up and get set up sat night and then either have to wait all day to do 1 race. Given, i saved a bunch of money by only being able to do 1 race but i often wished that the races were more evenly spread out over the 2 days.

[tsanterre]

...The schedule can be looked at. I can tell you, having spent dozens of hours helping with this, that it is difficult to come up with one schedule that works for most guys. I think at best we could do two....we will talk about this in the off season. Some riders who just run one day have expressed the need for a consistent schedule - that, and the challenge of coming up with two that work are the hurdles that must be cleared.

For me personally, I was only able to do the 1 race available on Saturday in my class as a Novice the first two events. I understand as a Novice there is more of a limited selection - but it is a lot of effort in traveling / preparing for just one race.

The last two events I have been able to stay until Sunday. I did both races on Sunday (again - the only two available for my class as a Novice) and the last one is race 12...late in the day. I want to sign up for 3 races so that I am eligible for the free infield pass - but in order to do so, I have to sign up for the more expensive GT race.

I would think it would be near impossible to find one schedule that works for most everybody. Especially, since you are talking about something with a bunch of moving pieces / parts.

For example - I'm hoping that after next weekend - I'll be able to bump to AM - and that will change the schedule completely for me.

[Doc]

I am a definite proponent of the Novice class. In order for this sport to grow there needs to be a place for new guys to try this sport out in a comfortable environment. When you only have Amatuer and Expert, there are always combined classes. Ricky Doucette can do 1:14's on a LW bike. We had Novices this weekend in the 1:30's and 1:40's. If they were Amatuers, they would be on track with guys like Ricky.....bad for them and bad for the fast guys as well. Removing this horror show where these guys would get lapped twice in an 8 lap race, is worth whatever time it takes in the schedule in my opinion. What we do is both safer and more enjoyable for everyone. I honestly think that CCS could take a look at what we are doing and make it nationwide.

My only thought here, and please correct me if it is not doable, is if the novice classes were gone the races could be reformated so that only amatuers/new guys are on track together and they would not get lapped by experts. Maybe you run Expert ULSB, LWSB and Thunderbikes together (if they are all similar aggregate times) then the next race would be the amatuers... ETC. Just a thought.

I know of PLENTY of people who have benefited from the 3 tiered structure LRRS has, but if it opened up more track time or a new exciting race class, it might be worth it.

[CBR929RE]

My only thought here, and please correct me if it is not doable, is if the novice classes were gone the races could be reformated so that only amatuers/new guys are on track together and they would not get lapped by experts. Maybe you run Expert ULSB, LWSB and Thunderbikes together (if they are all similar aggregate times) then the next race would be the amatuers... ETC. Just a thought.

I know of PLENTY of people who have benefited from the 3 tiered structure LRRS has, but if it opened up more track time or a new exciting race class, it might be worth it.

I see what you're saying but I still think 1:17 guy zipping by and spooking first weekend 1:40 guy is not a good idea.

I think we need to keep novices completely separate because NHMS is just too dangerous a track in itself. never mind adding in big differences in closing speeds. I liked the current novice format. I said at the beginning of the year that I really wanted to bump after the first round or 2 but I'm happy it took 4 rounds. I learned a bunch about racing in those 4 rounds (I did all 3 races each round). Even if I had done the times at the beginning of the year I really wouldn't have been ready for everything in an Amateur/Expert race. and I'm not even talking about close passes as I've had them done to me at track days by a couple friends. and it didn't spook me as I completely trust the ones who have done it closely (and by close I mean against the track day rules close, close). I considered them learning experiences.

[butcher bergs]

NHMS is too small to get rid of NV altogether.

I realize I'm not running top EX lap times but it'll be a cold day in hell when I am out there with people running 20 seconds off my pace. Hell, just the closing speeds at 10 seconds difference is substantial, IMO.

[Dannyf]

Use of one of the parking lots for some true supermoto racing and practice?

[csmutty]

Use of one of the parking lots for some true supermoto racing and practice?

I am pretty sure that is not going to be possible because of insurance. Any vehicle outside of the infield has to carry an insurance policy and has to be registered as far as i know.

[Dannyf]

I am pretty sure that is not going to be possible because of insurance. Any vehicle outside of the infield has to carry an insurance policy and has to be registered as far as i know.

Special event liability insurance isn't terribly expensive. I believe on average around 7 dollars a bike for an event with decent turnout. But it is just a thought would be kinda cool if it could happen. Who knows.

[rolker]

I am pretty sure that is not going to be possible because of insurance. Any vehicle outside of the infield has to carry an insurance policy and has to be registered as far as i know.

I think that's just a general rule that doesn't apply to organized events. I think I saw a karting event scheduled for the parking lot roads and I heard that a fall USCRA vintage race is supposed to happen using the parking lot roads as well.

[scottfromboston]

I think that's just a general rule that doesn't apply to organized events. I think I saw a karting event scheduled for the parking lot roads and I heard that a fall USCRA vintage race is supposed to happen using the parking lot roads as well.

It's been a while (early 2000's), but we did several karting events in the parking lots.

Runoffs were nasty, but karts scrub huge amounts of speed in turns when off-the-throttle.

Didn't the Vintage guys run in the parking lots at some point?

[Woodcraft]

[QUOTE=SVRACER01;1080126]i know that the PT guys say that the bellypan drags, especially in 10. QUOTE]

Going back to 1991 when I raced these - I do now recall beating the pipes flat on both sides by dragging them. That does create a challenge......

[Woodcraft]

The Novice thing really had nothing to do with NHMS...the speed disparities are everywhere. Faster tracks are actually worse....imagine a 140mph sweeper and having two experts close on a guy doing 100 at the apex (been there and it is downright frightening).

If we eliminated Novice, they would only get buzzed by the top guys who do 1:17's. Is that better? A top expert doing 11's or an Amatuer (with less experience) doing 17's. It's a toss up.

Plus right now there are something like 30 classes for expert and amatuer.....call it 60 total. Right now Ex/Am are combined and you have 600's lapping 600's, twins lapping twins - for the most part (class combinations notwithstanding). Now, if you combine Expert classes with other Expert Classes, Am with Am, you'll have two scenarios: either mismatched bikes racing with eachother or class combinations that make riders choose betweeen two classes that they would run if they were separated.

It's a lot to put together. I'm good with the system that we have because the danger is not in lapping guys that are doing 22's and 23's (back of the AM 600 grid), it's in coming upon guys doing 1:30s and 1:40's on 600's (there are more than a few that start at that pace). This system of having the Novice class fixes that and makes for much better racing..... that's my experience anyway.

[Kurlon]

I think that's just a general rule that doesn't apply to organized events. I think I saw a karting event scheduled for the parking lot roads and I heard that a fall USCRA vintage race is supposed to happen using the parking lot roads as well.

NEMM ran pitbike supermoto in the main lot across from the tunnel during an LRRS weekend, it can be done.

[Mr. Kurtz]

New Racer Mentor Program. Just someone willing to help a newcomer on Friday and Saturday with where to be and when, grid sheet, where is tech, leave the track stuff to the Penquin people. I have sent Emails off but not a single response.

We've discussed this internally as a team, and would be willing to help out with this. We've even got an area just outside our garage where new racers could pit, be close to the announcements and pregrid, and be 20 feet away so we could help them throughout the event. Obviously, we'd limit this to new racers first event, but my impression is that one event is all it takes to start making friends and find a permanent "home," be it in a garage or on the infield.

[Boosh]

You mean the turtle?

HA HA YES! or would vw be more appropriate