Bad decisions were made today..

[Jim]

Definitely a bitch, I'm sure you've already looked into custom made gaskets(Cometic / Gasketking), is that a workable option?? or are they too intricate??
:

not ever use Cometic, unless you want to blow a head gasket

[R7]

Was chatting with Russell about this yesterday, sounds like an adventure.

Definitely a bitch, I'm sure you've already looked into custom made gaskets(Cometic / Gasketking), is that a workable option?? or are they too intricate??

Does your searching include the "dark web"??

Good luck, i'm sure you'll find them if they're out there...

I think I just missed you as I walked in yesterday?

I’ve already found the exhaust header gaskets, 2 sets actually. There are aftermarket crank case cover and oil case cover gaskets available, I’d rather OEM, but will use the aftermarket as a back up.

None of those part numbers supercede?

Safe to assume the dealer inventory search was already done?

Yes, dealer inventory search was done with no luck. Most all the 5FL part numbers, do not supersede. I’ve found the more generic parts that were used on other models in similar years, will have an alternate part number.
I have a YEC head gasket set from the race kit, so I don’t need a head gasket at least. I’m told the valve cover gasket is reusable, but being 25 years old, I’m guessing it’s dry and brittle.

[R7]

Update..

Valve cover gasket, oil pump cover gaskets, and crankcase cover gaskets have been located.

It’s going to come down to the valves and having them made. I’ve already contacted the company to get that started.

[Jim]

what's left on the list Mark, and when will you give up out of frustration and sell the bike to me

[FriskyDingo]

I think I just missed you as I walked in yesterday?

I’ve already found the exhaust header gaskets, 2 sets actually. There are aftermarket crank case cover and oil case cover gaskets available, I’d rather OEM, but will use the aftermarket as a back up.



Yes, dealer inventory search was done with no luck. Most all the 5FL part numbers, do not supersede. I’ve found the more generic parts that were used on other models in similar years, will have an alternate part number.
I have a YEC head gasket set from the race kit, so I don’t need a head gasket at least. I’m told the valve cover gasket is reusable, but being 25 years old, I’m guessing it’s dry and brittle.

Ah too bad, think it was around 11 I headed out, started getting busy. I stopped in to pay for the KTM work & talk to him & PK about the sales dept. keeping the MFG rebate$$$ Somehow the conversation got around to your R7...

Update..

Valve cover gasket, oil pump cover gaskets, and crankcase cover gaskets have been located.

It’s going to come down to the valves and having them made. I’ve already contacted the company to get that started.

O come on, that seems almost too easy, less than a week of searching

Good luck with the valves

[butcher bergs]

Update..

Valve cover gasket, oil pump cover gaskets, and crankcase cover gaskets have been located.

It’s going to come down to the valves and having them made. I’ve already contacted the company to get that started.

In the off chance you were trashing the bent valves, I would definitely be interested in adding one of them to my shelf of cool things with stories.

Really stoked to see this is working out!

[xrocket21]

What will the valves be made of? Titanium?

[R7]

what's left on the list Mark, and when will you give up out of frustration and sell the bike to me

Just the valves at this point. I actually found a set of intake valves for a cool $6,500, but don’t need those.

Ah too bad, think it was around 11 I headed out, started getting busy. I stopped in to pay for the KTM work & talk to him & PK about the sales dept. keeping the MFG rebate$$$ Somehow the conversation got around to your R7...



O come on, that seems almost too easy, less than a week of searching

Good luck with the valves

Yeah, it was about 11-11:30 when I was there.
Thanks, hoping I actually find a set.

In the off chance you were trashing the bent valves, I would definitely be interested in adding one of them to my shelf of cool things with stories.

Really stoked to see this is working out!

I wouldn’t toss them in the trash, everything gets saved and put in a box. Yes, I can send you a valve once I have the new ones.

What will the valves be made of? Titanium?

They are Titanium, 12 intake valves, 8 exhaust valves

[R7]

Spoke with Del West Engineering yesterday, I’m going to ship them two original valves to copy. $290.00 each valve if I buy 8, the price goes down quite a bit if i buy more. This is such a common issue with the R7, it may be worth having a few sets made to resell. It’s 6-8 weeks to get them.

While search for all these parts, I’ve also found a few other small bits and pieces that I’ve been looking for.

[csmutty]

Spoke with Del West Engineering yesterday, I’m going to ship them two original valves to copy. $290.00 each valve if I buy 8, the price goes down quite a bit if i buy more. This is such a common issue with the R7, it may be worth having a few sets made to resell. It’s 6-8 weeks to get them.

While search for all these parts, I’ve also found a few other small bits and pieces that I’ve been looking for.

That honestly isn't a bad price or lead time considering they have to create a drawing from a physical part and the material type! I would agree it would be a good investment to get extras made for resale. I bet some would buy the valves just to have in case. Is it because of dissimilar metals that this is such a common problem? Galvanic corrosion causing them to stick? If the guides are brass or bronze that might cause it. That is the largest issue with titanium is how noble it is.

[R7]

That honestly isn't a bad price or lead time considering they have to create a drawing from a physical part and the material type! I would agree it would be a good investment to get extras made for resale. I bet some would buy the valves just to have in case. Is it because of dissimilar metals that this is such a common problem? Galvanic corrosion causing them to stick? If the guides are brass or bronze that might cause it. That is the largest issue with titanium is how noble it is.

Everything I’ve read, and been told, shitty fuel is the ultimate cause. The exhaust gas leaves deposits on the valve stems, which usually isn’t an issue on most bikes that are started and ran once a year or so. When they sit for long durations of time, the deposits corrode and cause the valve to stick in the guide as you try to start the engine. They were not frozen from sitting, it was the movement from trying to start it.
None of the intakes had any corrosion on them.

[csmutty]

Everything I’ve read, and been told, shitty fuel is the ultimate cause. The exhaust gas leaves deposits on the valve stems, which usually isn’t an issue on most bikes that are started and ran once a year or so. When they sit for long durations of time, the deposits corrode and cause the valve to stick in the guide as you try to start the engine. They were not frozen from sitting, it was the movement from trying to start it.
None of the intakes had any corrosion on them.

That is wild.

[PeaPod]

Spoke with Del West Engineering yesterday, I’m going to ship them two original valves to copy. $290.00 each valve if I buy 8, the price goes down quite a bit if i buy more. This is such a common issue with the R7, it may be worth having a few sets made to resell. It’s 6-8 weeks to get them.

While search for all these parts, I’ve also found a few other small bits and pieces that I’ve been looking for.

I was looking over this guys site and noticed he makes valves. Not sure how or what he does, but might check with him. Price per valve appears cheaper.

https://www.707racing.com/

"Specializing in:Titanium valves, keepers, & retainers / $60 per valve"

[Jim]

so silly question...if you used only ethanol free fuel, Sta-Bil or drained it, and checked the valve gap annually....should the valves last forever?
$4500 or so for a spare set of valves seems a bit overkill if it can be prevented.

[RandyO]

so silly question...if you used only ethanol free fuel, Sta-Bil or drained it, and checked the valve gap annually....should the valves last forever?
$4500 or so for a spare set of valves seems a bit overkill if it can be prevented.

I would just run VP, I believe is naphtha (white gas/Coleman fuel)

[R7]

so silly question...if you used only ethanol free fuel, Sta-Bil or drained it, and checked the valve gap annually....should the valves last forever?
$4500 or so for a spare set of valves seems a bit overkill if it can be prevented.

It’s likely the ethanol in the fuels, I don’t think draining the fuel or checking the valve lash every year will help. The engine needs to run every year, not just started and let come upto to temperature, but actually ridden and rpm’s brought up. That, combined with ethanol free fuel, should stop it from happening again.
The R7 owners community is tight and helpful to each other. I’d be open to having 4 sets of valves made, knowing I’d be able to sell off 3 sets at some point and recover the cost of the 8 valves for my bike. The price per valve drops as the number of valves go up.

Del West isn’t very responsive, so I’ve been talking with 2 other companies.

[Jim]

I would just run VP, I believe is naphtha (white gas/Coleman fuel)

need to be careful with which VP fuel used as T4 is highly oxygenated and could cause more valve damage than a traditional pump fuel. He would be best using C9 or even a 90-93 octane ethanol free fuel from the local gas station, stored in a VP or Sunoco 5 gallon pale.

[Kurlon]

VP T4 isn't super oxygenated, runs pretty clean, does swell o-rings over extended exposure though based on my two years faffing around with it. Stupid expensive compared to just tracking down ethanol free or not letting gas sit in the system over the winter. Plus with all the recall fun in 2024, it was a PITA just to get ahold of. Some of VP's other fuels are nasty, (Ye olde OG U4 for example) though as they've evolved they've gotten less so across the board.

And no, VP fuels are not 'basically naphtha/white gas'. Where did that idea spawn from?

[RandyO]

need to be careful with which VP fuel used as T4 is highly oxygenated and could cause more valve damage than a traditional pump fuel. He would be best using C9 or even a 90-93 octane ethanol free fuel from the local gas station, stored in a VP or Sunoco 5 gallon pale.

I was thinking mor VP's SEF, not racing fuel, MSDS calls for it being naphtha

[R7]

Just a quick update..
I’ve got all the parts except the 8 new valves.
The valves were sent out yesterday to be measured and draw up a spec sheet. Once approved, it’s 7-10 days to produce them, and hopefully get them back to me in a couple days.

The important gaskets, head, valve cover, exhaust header, intake, etc, I was able to get OE Yamaha parts. The little stuff like paper gaskets for the side covers, I bought a full Athena engine gasket set to get those from.

With a little luck, it’ll be running by spring.
Once the valves come in, I’ll update again with some pictures.

[R7]

The valve search continues..

Tomorrow I’m sending out a second pair of valves to a company called Kibblewhite. They need 2 valves to get an accurate spec, and match the coatings on the valves from the factory. Turnaround time isn’t great, but I feel I need two options to get this done. Their price is fair and competitive at around $240 each valve.

The first company I sent the two valves to, Victory 1 Performance, thought they couldn’t make because of the small valve stem size. I’ve been waiting to see if they can get the tooling for their equipment to make the smaller valves. They ask that I pay for the tooling piece seeing they have never made valves so small in the past, and likely won’t in the future. Even with me paying the cost of the tool, the price per valve is comparable.

Call me crazy for agreeing to have 2 sets made, but I’ll easily get my money back selling a set once my bike is running.

I tried using Del West, but I got tired of slow responses, and excuses for the slow responses.

[xrocket21]

I have zero experience in anything like this, but I feel like $240 per valve for custom machining titanium with a coating is super reasonable. I would have guessed the price would be astronomical.

[R7]

I have zero experience in anything like this, but I feel like $240 per valve for custom machining titanium with a coating is super reasonable. I would have guessed the price would be astronomical.

I do agree, I was expecting much higher. The valves are tiny, so from a size perspective, it seems like a lot.
I found a set of 8 OEM intake valves for the R7, and they were around $800 each.

[csmutty]

I mean it makes sense that valves would be expensive because of the tight tolerances and heavy amount of material removal. Would have to make them on a swiss screw machine with a guide bushing probably.

[xrocket21]

I do agree, I was expecting much higher. The valves are tiny, so from a size perspective, it seems like a lot.
I found a set of 8 OEM intake valves for the R7, and they were around $800 each.

I guess I could see someone being salty that they aren't "OEM" on a museum bike like this, but with parts scarcity, it makes sense