Here comes the electric pickup

[Kurlon]

Looking at average charger efficiency rates, Level 1 charging is ballparked at an absolute low of 75% efficiency, could be up to 95%. Level 2 charging tends to do better 90% to 95%.

So, for our fat Hummer EV's 212kw/h pack:
Level 1, 75% efficiency - 8 days to charge, 282kWh used, $70.66 to charge at $0.25kWh
Level 2, 95% efficiency - 12 hours to charge, 223kWh used, $55.78 to charge at $0.25kWh

Some EPA numbers, estimated range is 311mi. People have gotten a decent chunk more in tests, depends on driving conditions, if you've opted for the extreme offroad package, etc, so we'll stick with the EPA number. $0.22/mi worst case, $0.18 on Level 2. At today's National avg of $3.08/gal for regular (if this thing were a gasser it'd want premium, ignoring that) it'd need to hit 14mpg to match the cost of the worst charging option, 17mpg for Level 2, and I can't imagine many are affording a Hummer EV and not putting in a Level 2 charger? Looks like there is an improved battery pack (246 kWh) coming for the Hummer this year that'll push the rating out to closer to 381mi?

I didn't know the EPA's estimate of 33.7kWh for a gallon of gas, that's where the MPGe is derived from. I kinda want to test my generators to see how many kWh I can pull out of them with a gallon of gas now.

[csmutty]

I love reading the rabbit holes that Josh goes down.

[TheIglu]

Yup, $55 = $100.

EV'S BAD!

[boosten lebaron]

Looking at average charger efficiency rates, Level 1 charging is ballparked at an absolute low of 75% efficiency, could be up to 95%. Level 2 charging tends to do better 90% to 95%.

So, for our fat Hummer EV's 212kw/h pack:
Level 1, 75% efficiency - 8 days to charge, 282kWh used, $70.66 to charge at $0.25kWh
Level 2, 95% efficiency - 12 hours to charge, 223kWh used, $55.78 to charge at $0.25kWh

Some EPA numbers, estimated range is 311mi. People have gotten a decent chunk more in tests, depends on driving conditions, if you've opted for the extreme offroad package, etc, so we'll stick with the EPA number. $0.22/mi worst case, $0.18 on Level 2. At today's National avg of $3.08/gal for regular (if this thing were a gasser it'd want premium, ignoring that) it'd need to hit 14mpg to match the cost of the worst charging option, 17mpg for Level 2, and I can't imagine many are affording a Hummer EV and not putting in a Level 2 charger? Looks like there is an improved battery pack (246 kWh) coming for the Hummer this year that'll push the rating out to closer to 381mi?

I didn't know the EPA's estimate of 33.7kWh for a gallon of gas, that's where the MPGe is derived from. I kinda want to test my generators to see how many kWh I can pull out of them with a gallon of gas now.

Your estimates are based on simple math, not on a actual real world conditions. Level 2 charging takes 24 hours to charge from single digit to 100%. 16 hours from 20%. EVs use a good chunk of additional power just to be able to charge at the higher rate so a 200kwh battery actually uses closer to 225kwh to charge since the system cycles current, battery conditioning, cooling heating etc.
So level 2 charging is still roughly $100.

- - - Updated - - -

That's per gm as well.

[Vovchandr]

To be frank, regardless of the minutia of the numbers, if anybody is expecting efficiency out of the Hummer, electric or gas, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Hummer nameplate is synonymous with extreme inefficiency and the Hummers EV engineering follows that trend.

Why is the Hummer EV so inefficient? Mostly its weight, tipping the scales at 9,063 pounds. Nearly 3,000 of those pounds come from the battery pack alone. All that mass is tough for its three electric motors to move, which drags efficiency down.

[RandyO]

Your right, I screwed up. But it's still $100 to charge based on average rates. Its not a direct ratio to per kwh rates. And that's using fast chargers, not home chargers. It's not practical to use that as a base since it's days or even a week to charge.

So 300\$100= 3

there is likely a demand charge as well as the kwh if you need it in 2 hrs vs overnight for the same amount, you're gonna get charged more for the faster rate of charge

thats the way the demand meter works on my house, I get a better rate over restdential, but it will cost me to turn a welder on

[Kurlon]

Your estimates are based on simple math, not on a actual real world conditions. Level 2 charging takes 24 hours to charge from single digit to 100%. 16 hours from 20%. EVs use a good chunk of additional power just to be able to charge at the higher rate so a 200kwh battery actually uses closer to 225kwh to charge since the system cycles current, battery conditioning, cooling heating etc.
So level 2 charging is still roughly $100.

- - - Updated - - -

That's per gm as well.

My estimates arre based on the actual numbers and my experience with my PHEV as a sanity check. My estimates include the losses you noted. Note I listed the kWh burned, 223kWh for lvl 2 as you guessed, that doesn’t cost $100 at $0.25 per kWh.

[Kurlon]

there is likely a demand charge as well as the kwh if you need it in 2 hrs vs overnight for the same amount, you're gonna get charged more for the faster rate of charge

thats the way the demand meter works on my house, I get a better rate over restdential, but it will cost me to turn a welder on

Most resi rates don’t have demand structures in this area. Your setup as a resi user is an outlier.

[RandyO]

Most resi rates don’t have demand structures in this area. Your setup as a resi user is an outlier.

I was thinking it might be built into the quick charge stations, they are a commercial installation, so they won't have a residential rates or meter

my setup is because 40 years ago, I saw that commercial users get better kwh rates than residential abeit the demand surcharge, yes, my meter is an outlier for residences, but I have the same meter as almost every business that doesn't use 3phase, nothing unique.

[FirstDuc-1098]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-ele...210019817.html

4 Electric Cars That Will Break Down Twice as Fast as the Average Vehicle

[TheIglu]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-ele...210019817.html

4 Electric Cars That Will Break Down Twice as Fast as the Average Vehicle

The Mustang Mach-E is the only eyebrow raiser in that list.

The rest is "well no shit".

Nevermind it's a garbage clickbait article that doesn't give any actual data/statistics to back up it's claims.

[jhawley]

As cool as the hummer ev is, its a horrible poster child.

But in normal ev land, our model3 i have been crunching the numbers.

we basically charge it at home on a level 2 maybe 2-3 times a week.

Going from a 20% SOC back to 80%
used 48.12 kWh and my shy high cost here in Waterbury, Ct it cost me $11.52 to "top off" and took 6 h and 37 mins to do so.

most of the other charges are less than that, as im usually come home after my wife and just plug the car in because i would rather have it charged and ready to go. Most of the smaller charges are form like 40-50 back up to 80% and the cost is around $4-$10

Meanwhile my ridgeline with my super short commute 8 miles (10 minutes) and remote starting it now averaging about 12-13 mpg. Lucky for me a tank is lasting about 2 weeks. but the EV is still cheaper to run. for my wife and my family's normal ass lifestyle.

[TheIglu]

Towed a 6k pound trailer on Saturday. Still got 1.2mi/kWh.

Also took a client of mine out for a ride in the truck. He has a Lotus Elise, so he's no stranger to fun vehicles. Blew his mind. Just takes one ride to change minds....

[csmutty]

Towed a 6k pound trailer on Saturday. Still got 1.2mi/kWh.

Also took a client of mine out for a ride in the truck. He has a Lotus Elise, so he's no stranger to fun vehicles. Blew his mind. Just takes one ride to change minds....

Until you see the price tag. I know you got in early and got a decent price, but the prices now are a lot.

[tls25rs]

Towed a 6k pound trailer on Saturday. Still got 1.2mi/kWh.

Also took a client of mine out for a ride in the truck. He has a Lotus Elise, so he's no stranger to fun vehicles. Blew his mind. Just takes one ride to change minds....

Until you see the price tag. I know you got in early and got a decent price, but the prices now are a lot.

Pretty sure I asked this previously and don't recall an answer.

Clayton, if you had to pay what the cost of your Rivian is now would you still buy it?

Would you still be as large of a fan of the vehicle as you are?

I understand that the performance of the vehicle is awesome and it works very well with your use cases/expectations but at what price point does it become not worth it and an ICE will suffice?

[OreoGaborio]

Lucid really has opened my eyes to what an electric car could be. So much so that i invested in them.

Mind sharing more about your decision to invest?

Based solely on a quick glance at their stock prices over the last year, it seems like an odd investment but I literally know nothing else about the company. And hey, if it works out, you're getting in at a nice discount right now.

[FriskyDingo]

traction control dept gonna have some new engineers/programmers....



fortunately the dystopian future landscape will be void of snow due to global warming, so still the go-to apocalypse vehicle....maybe


where the tow hitch at? behind some electronically controlled hatch door under the bumper....

[RandyO]

traction control dept gonna have some new engineers/programmers....



fortunately the dystopian future landscape will be void of snow due to global warming, so still the go-to apocalypse vehicle....maybe


where the tow hitch at? behind some electronically controlled hatch door under the bumper....

not snow tires

[PurplePackage]

I was thinking it might be built into the quick charge stations, they are a commercial installation, so they won't have a residential rates or meter

my setup is because 40 years ago, I saw that commercial users get better kwh rates than residential abeit the demand surcharge, yes, my meter is an outlier for residences, but I have the same meter as almost every business that doesn't use 3phase, nothing unique.

You also get hit with the power factor costs. If there are a lot of Henrys in your load things can get more expensive.

[TheIglu]

Pretty sure I asked this previously and don't recall an answer.

Clayton, if you had to pay what the cost of your Rivian is now would you still buy it?

Would you still be as large of a fan of the vehicle as you are?

I understand that the performance of the vehicle is awesome and it works very well with your use cases/expectations but at what price point does it become not worth it and an ICE will suffice?

I got it for $85k before the credits. It's now a $95k vehicle.

I'd still get the credits either way, so yes, if I knew how good it was then, I would have paid $10k more for it.

The actual costs of half tons well equipped, and the cost of charge vs cost of diesel/gas plays into that equation.

I ended up paying less than a well equipped Tundra. It would of been about $5k more than a well equipped Tundra at the newer price. Still vastly superior (so far) to one.

Now long term costs? Well, as far as tires go, I'll be behind an ICE truck forever. But besides that, it should be cheaper to run.

[PurplePackage]

China has no problem developing cheap EV tires. I'm sure these will trickle into the loading docks sometime soon.

https://www.tiretechnologyinternatio...-in-china.html

[tls25rs]

I got it for $85k before the credits. It's now a $95k vehicle.

I'd still get the credits either way, so yes, if I knew how good it was then, I would have paid $10k more for it.

The actual costs of half tons well equipped, and the cost of charge vs cost of diesel/gas plays into that equation.

I ended up paying less than a well equipped Tundra. It would of been about $5k more than a well equipped Tundra at the newer price. Still vastly superior (so far) to one.

Now long term costs? Well, as far as tires go, I'll be behind an ICE truck forever. But besides that, it should be cheaper to run.

At $95k without any gov't subsidies to bring it down to a more reasonable price tag does that change the decision?

[RandyO]

China has no problem developing cheap EV tires. I'm sure these will trickle into the loading docks sometime soon.

https://www.tiretechnologyinternatio...-in-china.html

"all season rubber" I would lean toward Scandanavian snows, they got to be catering to EVs

[tls25rs]

That video of the cyber truck sliding sideways on an incline is similar to what I experienced with a neighbor trying to get his Tesla into an off camber parking lot entrance. The shear weight of the vehicle on a slippery side slope was making it more difficult to get going in a forward direction. At the slightest hint of wheel spin the weight of the vehicle made it want to go in the direction of the downhill. Better traction control programming might help to reduce wheel spin but gravity is gravity and weight trying to take something downhill, on similar tires to something that is lighter, the heavier vehicle is more likely to slide sideways down the slippery slope. Also, once moving the heavier vehicle has more momentum for the similar tires to attempt to grab traction and slow down.

[RandyO]

That video of the cyber truck sliding sideways on an incline is similar to what I experienced with a neighbor trying to get his Tesla into an off camber parking lot entrance. The shear weight of the vehicle on a slippery side slope was making it more difficult to get going in a forward direction. At the slightest hint of wheel spin the weight of the vehicle made it want to go in the direction of the downhill. Better traction control programming might help to reduce wheel spin but gravity is gravity and weight trying to take something downhill, on similar tires to something that is lighter, the heavier vehicle is more likely to slide sideways down the slippery slope. Also, once moving the heavier vehicle has more momentum for the similar tires to attempt to grab traction and slow down.

Nokian offers the Hakk R5 in an EV version, as well as the studded Hakk 10 EV


https://www.nokiantires.com/tires/pa...yAAEgKLFvD_BwE